2011 Trade Watch (was trade deadline watch)

[Lintyfresh85]

Antonelli is what, 26? He's not going to need much more development.

[Slateman]

Antonelli is what, 26? He's not going to need much more development.

He's already been calles up once before.

[PatsNats28]

Wouldn't 81 wins be average almost by definition?   Or are you saying average players give above average results?

Average players should give above average results. This is because averages are skewed by the best players, so that if you have 2 WAR players at every position (I did it for batters + SPs, bench was like half a win each and relievers like 3/4), you're going to be in better shape than more than 15 teams. That's because there is a concentration of talent on better teams (obvious, right?).

[Tyler Durden]

I might give Antonelli a shot but not Lombo.  Lombo is young enough to be fine staying in AAA.  It's better than jerking him around.  And it's better than jerking Desmond around when Desmond might be a bit fragile upstairs (it looks that way, anyway, with the way he was playing pre-daddy vs. post-daddy).

Antonelli, yeah I agree, would be fine with getting a shot and, if he fails, could be sent back down or demoted to utility guy.  It might hurt Lombo's long term development to have that happen.  I think Antonelli might be 27 by the time all this happens.  He's a grown azz man - it's different with him.

[imref]

MLBTR says the Astros were asking for an insane return for Wandy (Pomeranz, or a similar prospect).  I'm guessing they wouldn't have taken Milone or Rosenbaum.

[tomterp]

MLBTR says the Astros were asking for an insane return for Wandy (Pomeranz, or a similar prospect).  I'm guessing they wouldn't have taken Milone or Rosenbaum.

They're not going to get much for him with that salary.

[HalfSmokes]

I might give Antonelli a shot but not Lombo.  Lombo is young enough to be fine staying in AAA.  It's better than jerking him around.  And it's better than jerking Desmond around when Desmond might be a bit fragile upstairs (it looks that way, anyway, with the way he was playing pre-daddy vs. post-daddy).

Antonelli, yeah I agree, would be fine with getting a shot and, if he fails, could be sent back down or demoted to utility guy.  It might hurt Lombo's long term development to have that happen.  I think Antonelli might be 27 by the time all this happens.  He's a grown azz man - it's different with him.

Screw Desmond's ego, he's never played better than a utility player, he got tge job because Espinosa wasn't ready and Guz couldn't play short anymore

[JCA-CrystalCity]

MLBTR says the Astros were asking for an insane return for Wandy (Pomeranz, or a similar prospect).  I'm guessing they wouldn't have taken Milone or Rosenbaum.

so I take it no deal?  I thought it had to be done by 1 PM today.

Guess the Astros meant it when they said they would not just give him away.  OK, now try making that $60MM budget.

[HalfSmokes]

Someone will give them something decent in the Offseason - he's at least a 3 on most teams and the free anent starter class this year blows

[PatsNats28]

MLBTR says the Astros were asking for an insane return for Wandy (Pomeranz, or a similar prospect).  I'm guessing they wouldn't have taken Milone or Rosenbaum.

whataboutdesmond

[Slateman]

whataboutdesmond

No body wants Desmond. He can't hit. He can't field. He doesn't steal bases. Why would anyone want him?

[Tyler Durden]

Screw Desmond's ego, he's never played better than a utility player, he got tge job because Espinosa wasn't ready and Guz couldn't play short anymore

Espinosa hit .268/.337/.464 over 500+ at bats in the AA and AAA his last year in the minors.  This year in the majors, he's at .229/.313/.408. 

Ian Desmond hit .330/.401/.477 his last year in the minors.  He's hitting terrible/terrible/terrible.

Lombo is hitting .314/.364/.442 this year in the minors.  Why is he going to be so much better?

I'm all for upgrading from Desmond/Espinosa - I just don't see how Lombo is going to be clearly better. 

[Kevrock]

No body wants Desmond. He can't hit. He can't field. He doesn't steal bases. Why would anyone want him?

He has 20 stolen bases.

[MarquisDeSade]

He has 20 stolen bases.

And none in the past two months, unfortunately.   I thought he was going to be my dark horse SB leader on a fantasy team, too bad that didn't happen.

[Evolution33]

And none in the past two months, unfortunately.   I thought he was going to be my dark horse SB leader on a fantasy team, too bad that didn't happen.

Davey is not a running manager. It is weird to me that his hammy heals and he does get his power back but hasn't stolen any bases since recovering.

[MarquisDeSade]

Davey is not a running manager. It is weird to me that his hammy heals and he does get his power back but hasn't stolen any bases since recovering.

Yeah, the double steal last night surprised me.  I really, really like Desmond but if this isn't a sophomore slump it's going to be hard to defend keeping him as our starting SS.

[Evolution33]

Yeah, the double steal last night surprised me.  I really, really like Desmond but if this isn't a sophomore slump it's going to be hard to defend keeping him as our starting SS.

It isn't that hard to defend him but Desmond is a guy not many people listen to logic on. He was hurt for most of the first half of the season and his numbers were awful, but if you watched him he was swinging with all arms because of the leg injury. He couldn't use his lower half and I am not even sure he hit a ball out of the infield in the month of June. Since the all-star break he has hit .274/.331/.411 which is above average for a short stop. Combine that with his defensive improvements and he is very much a guy that can play short stop at the major league level.

[Lintyfresh85]

Top five in errors at SS. Defense isn't all that much improved.

[Kevrock]

Top five in errors at SS. Defense isn't all that much improved.

Except that it is improved for him. He's on pace for less errors and higher fielding percentage. Of course, he's still not where I'd like him to be.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Top five in errors at SS. Defense isn't all that much improved.

He's neutral to a tick above average in ratings that factor in range.  A poor man's Elvis Andrus.

[Evolution33]

Except that it is improved for him. He's on pace for less errors and higher fielding percentage. Of course, he's still not where I'd like him to be.

UZR/150 went from -9.4 in 2010 to 2.9 in 2011. That is a pretty big improvement. Still doesn't make him great, but he is all around average. If it was certain that Lombardozzi could hit better than Desmond then I would be all for moving him in the off-season. I don't think it is a certainty and as they are both still cheap and controllable there is no reason to rush to judgment.

[MarquisDeSade]

Combine that with his defensive improvements and he is very much a guy that can play short stop at the major league level.

If he could be a .250/.330/.370 guy with the defense he's had this year that'd be alright with me.

[PatsNats28]

No body wants Desmond. He can't hit. He can't field. He doesn't steal bases. Why would anyone want him?

Because Ed Wade is the GM.

[Slateman]

Espinosa hit .268/.337/.464 over 500+ at bats in the AA and AAA his last year in the minors.  This year in the majors, he's at .229/.313/.408. 

Ian Desmond hit .330/.401/.477 his last year in the minors.  He's hitting terrible/terrible/terrible.

Lombo is hitting .314/.364/.442 this year in the minors.  Why is he going to be so much better?

I'm all for upgrading from Desmond/Espinosa - I just don't see how Lombo is going to be clearly better. 

Ian Desmond minor league career - .259/.326/.388 (31.5 errors per season)
Danny Espinosa minor league career - .270/.365/.455 (19.5 errors per season)
Lombardozzi minor league career - .300/.371/.415 (8.5 errors per season)

Shoeshineboy already covered this, but Desmond has never hit well outside of his last 55 games in the minors. Whatever he did, he has been unable to reproduce.  Espinosa and Lombardozzi have better hitting skills. Espinosa is already hitting better than Desmond. Lombardozzi's numbers and consistency in the minors trounce Desmond.

On top of that, Desmond is a poor to below average defender at best. Espinosa and Lombardozzi have just as much range as Desmond, but they make fewer errors. As much as Desmond has improved, it isn't enough and its not much of an improvement. We have better options already available to us.

[Lintyfresh85]

Antonelli > Lombardozzi