2012 free agency

[RD]

It is exceedingly stupid to avoid the coming year's free agent market just because the one two years away looks good.  You should acquire good players as they become available, not as the entire free agent class looks to be to your liking.

There is a much larger picture to consider.

We only need 2 spots in the rotation. We have in house options of young guys that could prove to b e long term answers in Milone, Peacock, and Detwiler. Chien Ming Wang is another in house guy that could be thrown into the mix. That's 4 guys in consideration for two spots.

Its not like we're saying, oh our entire future rests on the 2013 free agent class. If we re-sign Wang, then it comes down to one kid joining the rotation, which is not a bad thing, especially with the upside of a guy like Peacock.

It's worth seeing what the kids have to see if they have a future here instead of overpaying for a decent starter. Then if none of those kids step up, when 2013 comes, we have a clearer look and many more options.

[DPMOmaha]

Werth already has a ring, he came for the money.

If CJ Wilson comes here, it would be solely for the money (at least the first couple of years)  - is that what he wants?

It's worth finding out.  Reyes is worth the money if he's willing to come here and then you can deal with someone like Ankiel in RF.  Plus, I don't think it's a tough sell with the young talent that by 2013 and possibly sooner that they'll be in a pennant race.  If there's a piece that fills a hole, you don't wait til after 2012 to fill it.  Fill it now and that will probably lead to less to do then.

[DPMOmaha]

There is a much larger picture to consider.

We only need 2 spots in the rotation. We have in house options of young guys that could prove to b e long term answers in Milone, Peacock, and Detwiler. Chien Ming Wang is another in house guy that could be thrown into the mix. That's 4 guys in consideration for two spots.

Its not like we're saying, oh our entire future rests on the 2013 free agent class. If we re-sign Wang, then it comes down to one kid joining the rotation, which is not a bad thing, especially with the upside of a guy like Peacock.

It's worth seeing what the kids have to see if they have a future here instead of overpaying for a decent starter. Then if none of those kids step up, when 2013 comes, we have a clearer look and many more options.

fine, but if you can get a CC or a CJ to come, you do it.  You don't turn it down because you've got young guys who you think will be pretty good someday, especially if you're serious about turning the corner soon.  They've got the blinker on, they just need to turn it.  Guys like CC and CJ can help you do it.  We already know what they can bring.  We only think we know what the others can bring.  Stras, Zim, one of these two and perhaps CMW is a playoff rotation, no doubt.

[wpa2629]

It's worth finding out.  Reyes is worth the money if he's willing to come here and then you can deal with someone like Ankiel in RF.  Plus, I don't think it's a tough sell with the young talent that by 2013 and possibly sooner that they'll be in a pennant race.  If there's a piece that fills a hole, you don't wait til after 2012 to fill it.  Fill it now and that will probably lead to less to do then.

I agree, though I don't think we should go balls to the walls after a guy when it's clear he'd rather not be here.

[DPMOmaha]

I agree, though I don't think we should go balls to the walls after a guy when it's clear he'd rather not be here.

Is it clear he doesn't?  If it is, then I agree.

[wpa2629]

Is it clear he doesn't?  If it is, then I agree.

Right, that's what we have to wait and find out about

[RD]

fine, but if you can get a CC or a CJ to come, you do it.  You don't turn it down because you've got young guys who you think will be pretty good someday, especially if you're serious about turning the corner soon.  They've got the blinker on, they just need to turn it.  Guys like CC and CJ can help you do it.  We already know what they can bring.  We only think we know what the others can bring.  Stras, Zim, one of these two and perhaps CMW is a playoff rotation, no doubt.

Wilson is absolutely not worth it. Again, it's not necessarily saying I want Detwiler over CJ Wilson.

But if it comes down to paying a 31 year old CJ Wilson $23mill over 7 years, then yes, I will go with picking between Detwiler, Peacock, or Milone for a season and then having guys like Cain, Greinke, and Hamels on the market if those guys can't hack it.

[Kevrock]

There's a big difference between CC and CJ.

[DPMOmaha]

Wilson is absolutely not worth it. Again, it's not necessarily saying I want Detwiler over CJ Wilson.

But if it comes down to paying a 31 year old CJ Wilson $23mill over 7 years, then yes, I will go with picking between Detwiler, Peacock, or Milone for a season and then having guys like Cain, Greinke, and Hamels on the market if those guys can't hack it.

I don't think there's anyone out there this year that I'd give a 7 year deal to.  I'd rather give someone like Carpenter a two year deal.  I don't expect the Cards to pick up  his option since I believe they'll have to make a decision on Wainwright this offseason, too, especially if they are serious about getting Pujols back.

[wpa2629]

CC is a free agent? I thought he signed a 20 year eleventy billion dollar contract with the Yankees

[wpa2629]

I don't think there's anyone out there this year that I'd give a 7 year deal to.  I'd rather give someone like Carpenter a two year deal.  I don't expect the Cards to pick up  his option since I believe they'll have to make a decision on Wainwright this offseason, too, especially if they are serious about getting Pujols back.

I don't think the Cardinals have any intention of bringing Pujols back. Crazy, right?

[HalfSmokes]

CC is a free agent? I thought he signed a 20 year eleventy billion dollar contract with the Yankees

he has an opt out- I think most people expect him to opt out to get more years and money from the yankees

[Lintyfresh85]

There is a much larger picture to consider.

Just as there was in 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 etc. etc.

[RD]

I don't think there's anyone out there this year that I'd give a 7 year deal to.  I'd rather give someone like Carpenter a two year deal.  I don't expect the Cards to pick up  his option since I believe they'll have to make a decision on Wainwright this offseason, too, especially if they are serious about getting Pujols back.

That's precisely my point with the free agent crop this year. There really aren't many players that fit this team long term, and with the lack of big time talent, people are going to get overpaid. Jose Reyes is the only long term, big money guy I would pursue, but I wouldnt want to give him a 7 year deal either.

With Wilson being the top pitcher on the market, it's going to be a bidding war for his services. He's going to top $20mill, easily. I know CC may opt out, and hell be the top guy, but he'll just get a raise from the Yanks and Wilson will still get overpaid.

[DPMOmaha]

That's precisely my point with the free agent crop this year. There really aren't many players that fit this team long term, and with the lack of big time talent, people are going to get overpaid. Jose Reyes is the only long term, big money guy I would pursue, but I wouldnt want to give him a 7 year deal either.

With Wilson being the top pitcher on the market, it's going to be a bidding war for his services. He's going to top $20mill, easily. I know CC may opt out, and hell be the top guy, but he'll just get a raise from the Yanks and Wilson will still get overpaid.

I'm right with you, then.  Would Reyes take a 4 year deal with an option or two and incentives?

[HalfSmokes]

I'm right with you, then.  Would Reyes take a 4 year deal with an option or two and incentives?

probably if they were player options

[wpa2629]

I'm right with you, then.  Would Reyes take a 4 year deal with an option or two and incentives?

Why would he? Why would he if someone else is willing to throw money at him long term, which I imagine there will be. There's always a team willing to overpay for the Hot Child of Free Agency

[wpa2629]

Another part of this puzzle is Rendon - word has it he's major league ready. What if he's ready by Spring Training? Would you still want to throw the world at Reyes, particularly considering the injury concerns?

[Slateman]

he has an opt out- I think most people expect him to opt out to get more years and money from the yankees

Either that or he will go tobthe West Coast like he said he originally wanted to.

[HalfSmokes]

Another part of this puzzle is Rendon - word has it he's major league ready. What if he's ready by Spring Training? Would you still want to throw the world at Reyes, particularly considering the injury concerns?

major league ready at what position?

[DPMOmaha]

Another part of this puzzle is Rendon - word has it he's major league ready. What if he's ready by Spring Training? Would you still want to throw the world at Reyes, particularly considering the injury concerns?

Maybe not the world, but I'd consider North America and probably throw in Brazil.  Rendon isn't projected as a top of the order guy, he's seen more as a middle guy, I think.  If it were my money, I'd deal Desmond (probably in a package of some sort for a CF) and throw a big deal at Reyes.  Get Zim locked up and figure out what the 1B log jam from there.  That could very well be moving Zim over to save his health and having Rendon take over for him, give it to Morse after this year, give it to Marrero or move Rendon over there.  I could see all of those as viable possibilities.  Again, that's if it were my money, which, it clearly isn't.

[wpa2629]

major league ready at what position?

Ha ... good question

[RD]

I'm right with you, then.  Would Reyes take a 4 year deal with an option or two and incentives?

It'll be interesting to see how people approach Reyes this off season. Without injury concerns, I wouldn't mind giving him 7 years.

But with them, and it's all speculation of course, but mlbtraderumors mentioned article centered around 5 years. I would go 5 for him. He might get 5 plus incentives. I was wondering how they'd play this, but no matter what, this is his last big deal so they'll go with the longest deal. I can't imagine he'd go any shorter than 5, just because nobody will really want to commit to him at 32 years old. He'll get a contract but probably not big money for the rest of his career. If he signs 5 years, he'll get one more big money year, then deal with the open market on the downside of his career.

So my guess would be 5 plus options/incentives, but that's just something tossed out there.

[aspenbubba]

Lannan is already included in my projection for the team. When I say "if there are two spots left at the back end of the rotation" that means our front three is Strasburg, Zimmermann, and Lannan. Not that I think Lannan should be our #3, just saying I count him amongst the rotation locks at this point.

Didn't you infer that we couLd pick up a FA pitcher

[RD]

Didn't you infer that we couLd pick up a FA pitcher

I prefer to stay away from a free agent pitcher this off season. Id give our in house guys a shot(and that includes Wang, who is a FA and would need to be re-signed) and if none of them take a hold of a spot, then get aggressive in 2013.