Author Topic: The "Former Nat Watch" Thread (2011)  (Read 44806 times)

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Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: The "Former Nat Watch" Thread (2011)
« Reply #325: June 09, 2011, 12:03:31 PM »
Everytime I see him play, he seems to start his set up just a tick late, making him late on the fastball. Of course, it looks like an easy fix from far away... but I'm sure it's more complicated than that.

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: The "Former Nat Watch" Thread (2011)
« Reply #326: June 09, 2011, 12:03:57 PM »
he would be doing better here, imo.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: The "Former Nat Watch" Thread (2011)
« Reply #327: June 09, 2011, 01:07:21 PM »
Nyjer Morgan wins the game... doesn't know what inning or the score.

http://deadspin.com/5810351/

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: The "Former Nat Watch" Thread (2011)
« Reply #328: June 09, 2011, 01:25:25 PM »
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Nyjer-Morgan-doesn-t-realize-it-s-9th-inning-unt;_ylt=AvqjpPkqh96.saU8dL_SwUIRvLYF?urn=mlb-wp8998

I'm at work and that video didn't come up for me - probably my work computer.  Check out the above for another video.

Don't even know what to say to all that.

Online imref

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Re: The "Former Nat Watch" Thread (2011)
« Reply #329: June 09, 2011, 10:15:28 PM »
Dunn finally hit another HR tonight.  So weird to see him batting 7th.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: The "Former Nat Watch" Thread (2011)
« Reply #330: June 10, 2011, 02:08:28 PM »
FJB has a long article on why letting Dunn walk and taking the compensation was the right move - http://firejimbowden.blogspot.com/2011/06/when-nationals-outsmarted-everyone.html

There's really no way to know that yet given Meyer and Goodwin haven't even signed with us yet, but it definitely looks right now like not signing him to the deal he got from the White Sox was the right move.

The article also talks about Dunn's 'old guy skills' and a downward trend in his stats.  These are the same reasons I wouldn't sign Fielder to a 7 year 150 million dollar contract or whatever Boras would shove down some team's throat.

Offline The Chief

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Re: The "Former Nat Watch" Thread (2011)
« Reply #331: June 10, 2011, 02:11:41 PM »
"Outsmarted" is giving the FO way too much credit, IMO.  Just a combination of luck and doing what you're supposed to do.  It's not like tons of other teams were beating the door down for Dunn's services either.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: The "Former Nat Watch" Thread (2011)
« Reply #332: June 10, 2011, 02:47:22 PM »
Yep - luck has a lot to do with it, especially if we're talking about getting the picks rather than trading him.  But it seems like not extending him was probably the right move given the number of years and dollars he wanted.

Offline The Chief

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Re: The "Former Nat Watch" Thread (2011)
« Reply #333: June 10, 2011, 02:54:00 PM »
Yep - luck has a lot to do with it, especially if we're talking about getting the picks rather than trading him.  But it seems like not extending him was probably the right move given the number of years and dollars he wanted.

It's easy to say now, but no one knows that he would be doing that poorly if he'd stayed on here, or even that he will continue to do so poorly in Chitown.  None of us really knows for sure what he might have accepted if Rizzo had aggressively negotiated with him in good faith from the beginning of last season instead of waffling and probably demanding too much in trades.

We may look good for letting him go right now, but I'm hesitant to give the FO any credit for anything other than their standard deadline negotiating tactic:


Offline PANatsFan

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Re: The "Former Nat Watch" Thread (2011)
« Reply #334: June 10, 2011, 02:57:17 PM »
"Outsmarted" is giving the FO way too much credit, IMO.  Just a combination of luck and doing what you're supposed to do.  It's not like tons of other teams were beating the door down for Dunn's services either.

This is a good point, lots of people said he was going to fall off a cliff.

Offline The Chief

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Re: The "Former Nat Watch" Thread (2011)
« Reply #335: June 10, 2011, 02:58:30 PM »
This is a good point, lots of people said he was going to fall off a cliff.

Furthermore, even if he hits .190 all year, there's no saying he won't smash the ball next year, and next year is the year that really matters for the Nats.

That said, at this point I really like Morse at 1B and I hope he keeps it up and locks up the job next year.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: The "Former Nat Watch" Thread (2011)
« Reply #336: June 10, 2011, 03:28:30 PM »
Comparing what he's doing this year to what he'd be doing if he was a Nat is stupid. This year he's had to adjust to full-time DHing (something he said he felt would hurt his play) and had an appendectomy earlier this year.


Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: The "Former Nat Watch" Thread (2011)
« Reply #337: June 10, 2011, 04:31:54 PM »
Furthermore, even if he hits .190 all year, there's no saying he won't smash the ball next year, and next year is the year that really matters for the Nats.

That said, at this point I really like Morse at 1B and I hope he keeps it up and locks up the job next year.

I agree that there are no definites here and I'm not saying Dunn is already on an irreversible decline.  I'm saying that, given the contract he eventually signed witht eh White Sox and the numbers that were being thrown around as possible extension figures, it would not have been worth signing him.  Yes, you do give up the possibility of 35+ homeruns every year - but you also don't risk having a $15 mil/year non-hitting DH on the roster. 

How much would you have bet on Dunn being the same guy he has been?  3 years and 40 million?  2 years and 35 million?  For all we know, Rizzo may have offered that.  Or Rizzo may not have been willing to even bet that amount given the 'old guy skills' and risk of severe and precipitous decline.  We don't know - we only know that Dunn eventually signed for four years with Chicago.

I also wouldn't exactly relate them to a deer in the headlights.  They did manage to sign Strasburg and Harper at the deadline, which some people said they couldn't get done.  That does reflect at least some minimal level of competence.  They may not have 'outsmarted' anyone, but if they are to be judged on results, they may have made the right call here.  Even if they were, as you said, just doing what they were supposed to be doing.

Offline The Chief

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Re: The "Former Nat Watch" Thread (2011)
« Reply #338: June 10, 2011, 04:42:04 PM »
They did manage to sign Strasburg and Harper at the deadline

As Chris Rock would say, you don't get credit for doing some crap that you're supposed to do.

Otherwise, I don't disagree with the rest of your post, but I still think this franchise has a track record of freezing up when it comes time to make a decision on the very few big-name players that have passed through.  Hence the deer in headlights image.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: The "Former Nat Watch" Thread (2011)
« Reply #339: June 10, 2011, 04:43:08 PM »
As Chris Rock would say, you don't get credit for doing some crap that you're supposed to do.

I take care-a ma kidz!

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: The "Former Nat Watch" Thread (2011)
« Reply #340: June 10, 2011, 04:44:28 PM »
I take care-a ma kidz!

What do you want, a cookie?

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: The "Former Nat Watch" Thread (2011)
« Reply #341: June 10, 2011, 04:47:50 PM »
Well, the Soriano thing worked out well and if Meyer turns out to be anything resembling another JZ, they will have done OK in dealing with the Dunn situation, too.  Yeah that will take a good bit of luck, but a good bit of luck is involved in any of these kinds of decisions.

I actually thought we should bring Dunn back.  But I think I might have been wrong.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: The "Former Nat Watch" Thread (2011)
« Reply #342: June 11, 2011, 12:57:26 AM »
Manny and Girardi went toe to toe tonight.

Manny was screaming like crazy.

All started because Tex ducked into a fastball and claimed it almost hit him in the head. Had he stood, like normal, it hits him in the ribs.

Offline The Rock

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Re: The "Former Nat Watch" Thread (2011)
« Reply #343: June 11, 2011, 09:01:48 AM »
Manny and Girardi went toe to toe tonight.

Manny was screaming like crazy.

All started because Tex ducked into a fastball and claimed it almost hit him in the head. Had he stood, like normal, it hits him in the ribs.

Saw that...I wished Manny had that fire when he was with the Nats.  But he probably filled his quota of arguments for the next decade so I doubt we'll see that again soon.

That pitch was intentionally at Tex though, so I understand why he was upset.  Agreed about the part that Tex would've been hit in the ribs.  With the Yankees being swept by the Red Sox, it was probably built up frustration.

Offline The Chief

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Re: The "Former Nat Watch" Thread (2011)
« Reply #344: June 11, 2011, 12:20:36 PM »
Manny was screaming like crazy.

I know you're an Indians fan but I think you're exaggerating this a bit.  Manny came out and appeared to say "what do you want me to do about it?" with arms raised appropriately.  The yelling didn't start until Girardi went off, so it's just Manny being backed into a corner and reacting the way most people would under such circumstances.  Even then I wouldn't call what Manny was doing "screaming like crazy."  Most people don't remember it because he was so laid back with the Nats, but he had a handful of comparable outbursts during his time in DC.  Never got into it with another club's manager that I can recall, though, so that probably makes this seem like a bigger deal.

Saw that...I wished Manny had that fire when he was with the Nats.  But he probably filled his quota of arguments for the next decade so I doubt we'll see that again soon.

That pitch was intentionally at Tex though, so I understand why he was upset.  Agreed about the part that Tex would've been hit in the ribs.  With the Yankees being swept by the Red Sox, it was probably built up frustration.

Like I said, he had one or two annual tantrums here, they were just forgettable ones, especially against the backdrop of his otherwise milquetoast personality.  Of course, he never EVER had us throw at anyone in retalation either, so the general lack of confrontation is unsurprising.  From what I've seen and read, this incident with the Yankees was accidental.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: The "Former Nat Watch" Thread (2011)
« Reply #345: June 11, 2011, 12:28:21 PM »
I know you're an Indians fan but I think you're exaggerating this a bit.  Manny came out and appeared to say "what do you want me to do about it?" with arms raised appropriately.  The yelling didn't start until Girardi went off, so it's just Manny being backed into a corner and reacting the way most people would under such circumstances.  Even then I wouldn't call what Manny was doing "screaming like crazy."  Most people don't remember it because he was so laid back with the Nats, but he had a handful of comparable outbursts during his time in DC.  Never got into it with another club's manager that I can recall, though, so that probably makes this seem like a bigger deal.

Like I said, he had one or two annual tantrums here, they were just forgettable ones, especially against the backdrop of his otherwise milquetoast personality.  Of course, he never EVER had us throw at anyone in retalation either, so the general lack of confrontation is unsurprising.  From what I've seen and read, this incident with the Yankees was accidental.


My guess is that the thing about him and Riggleman is that they don't swear. Riggleman doesn't swear so he doesn't get tossed. He was following umps around the other day but nothing came of it.

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: The "Former Nat Watch" Thread (2011)
« Reply #346: June 11, 2011, 02:45:53 PM »
I know you're an Indians fan but I think you're exaggerating this a bit.  Manny came out and appeared to say "what do you want me to do about it?" with arms raised appropriately.  The yelling didn't start until Girardi went off, so it's just Manny being backed into a corner and reacting the way most people would under such circumstances.  Even then I wouldn't call what Manny was doing "screaming like crazy."  Most people don't remember it because he was so laid back with the Nats, but he had a handful of comparable outbursts during his time in DC.  Never got into it with another club's manager that I can recall, though, so that probably makes this seem like a bigger deal.

When did he have a comparable outburst aside from getting tossed by Hunter Wendelstedt?

Offline The Chief

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Re: The "Former Nat Watch" Thread (2011)
« Reply #347: June 11, 2011, 08:10:50 PM »
When did he have a comparable outburst aside from getting tossed by Hunter Wendelstedt?

It's not like I have them memorized, I just know that he threw a tantrum and got tossed a handful of times during his DC days.  He never got into it with another teams' skipper that I can remember, though.

For as much as people complain about Riggleman, at least Riggs doesn't let another team plunk the crap out of us without responding the way Acta always did.  That may have changed for Acta now, but as he's no longer in DC, I'm barely aware he exists at all.

Offline PC

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Re: The "Former Nat Watch" Thread (2011)
« Reply #348: June 11, 2011, 09:00:22 PM »
It was just mentioned by the announcers of the Syracuse game that Justin Maxwell is out for the season with a torn labrum.

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: The "Former Nat Watch" Thread (2011)
« Reply #349: June 11, 2011, 09:11:23 PM »
It's not like I have them memorized, I just know that he threw a tantrum and got tossed a handful of times during his DC days.  He never got into it with another teams' skipper that I can remember, though.

I'm pretty sure Philly in '07 was the only time Acta ever got tossed.

Addendum: I just looked it up, and he was actually tossed one other time.  That was in Florida in April of 2009.  It was some really weird incident on an Elijah Dukes strikeout, but it wasn't really precipitated by any sort of freakout.

Regardless, Acta was totally feckless as a manager in D.C.  I don't know what incidents you're remembering, but I'm pretty sure there weren't that many.  I remember some hilarious blog post from two years ago where some guy jokingly claimed that Manny Acta would be exactly the type of guy you wouldn't want as your alibi if the police accused you of committing a crime because he doesn't even have the guts to stick up for his players.  That's the time of manager he was.  freaking useless in the face of adversity.