Fire Rizzo

[HalfSmokes]

True, but how do you even draft for that position?

Apparently Rizzo thought you could

[HalfSmokes]

Seems to me like it's really hard to disentangle causation here.

Is Rizzo bad at scouting and drafting, or is there a failure in either scouting or player development below him?

Is Rizzo bad at trades and payroll structuring, or he doing the best he can with an activist owner who has poor instincts?

Rizzo was widely considered a genius when the Nats were rebuilding and the Nats now seem likely to be rebuilding again soon.

The best players Rizzo acquired though this stretch were by taking best player available in the draft and by offering a then record setting contract - genius seems to be a stretch

[MarquisDeSade]

The best players Rizzo acquired though this stretch were by taking best player available in the draft and by offering a then record setting contract - genius seems to be a stretch

He traded the guy currently lighting up guys for the Pissburgh Pirates for Mark Melancon which got him nowhere in the playoffs and lost him an electric lefty that would have been a very cheap closer, setup, or fireman.  The Eaton trade is likely going to go down as an L.  Not seeing what genius moves Rizzo's made.

[Elvir Ovcina]

The best players Rizzo acquired though this stretch were by taking best player available in the draft and by offering a then record setting contract - genius seems to be a stretch

Trading Matt Capps for Ramos and Langerhans for Morse were both pretty good.  I didn't like it at the time, but LaRoche also worked out as a free agent signing.  There were some moves he made in that time frame that filled major holes capably and that made a lot of difference.   It's just that it got ugly after the team got to playoff-caliber, unfortunately.

[UMDNats]

Yeah, I'm not sure it takes a genius to draft Strasburg, Harper & Rendon, probably the 3 biggest "rebuild" players we acquired. He made plenty of shrewd moves early on in the rebuild but the last few years have been hit or miss.

His first big free agent deal (Werth) actually worked out OK for us but it also wasn't a genius move.

[varoadking]

Is Rizzo bad at scouting and drafting, or is there a failure in either scouting or player development below him?

Well...who has Rizzo drafted lower than #6 overall, or a signing other than a Boras client for that matter, that has had a sustained success here? 

Looking at the number of guys that he drafted and sucked while they were here and after they were let go, or sucked while they were here and did well once they moved on, you have to blame scouting and player development.

I really don't think this organization has much of anything to hang it's hat on.  What has worked was either a gift or an inside job.  What didn't work seems to be the norm.

I'm waiting for the day that Andrew Stevenson wins the MVP...

[HalfSmokes]

Trading Matt Capps for Ramos and Langerhans for Morse were both pretty good.  I didn't like it at the time, but LaRoche also worked out as a free agent signing.  There were some moves he made in that time frame that filled major holes capably and that made a lot of difference.   It's just that it got ugly after the team got to playoff-caliber, unfortunately.

Those seem like the kind of minor wins any gm who has been around as long as rizzo should have

[UMDNats]

The fact that Rizzo is hailed as a genius pretty much says all you need to know about the state of the DC sports media.

[MarquisDeSade]

Those seem like the kind of minor wins any gm who has been around as long as rizzo should have

AJ Preller has more trade wins than Rizzo.  Let that sink in.

[mitlen]

The fact that Rizzo is hailed as a genius pretty much says all you need to know about the state of the DC sports media.

   ...  and team management in all local pro sports.

[dracnal]

He traded the guy currently lighting up guys for the Pissburgh Pirates for Mark Melancon which got him nowhere in the playoffs and lost him an electric lefty that would have been a very cheap closer, setup, or fireman.  The Eaton trade is likely going to go down as an L.  Not seeing what genius moves Rizzo's made.

To be fair - the first part of the season before the trade he was very effective. But he had the nickname 'Every day Felipe,' because he was used damn near every single day. By the point of the season where he got traded, his effectiveness had dropped off sharply. I don't think anyone complained much about the trade at the time.  But yes, if he hadn't been the go to horse and the only go to horse in the pen, we probably would have all raised hell.

It was a dumb move, but hindsight makes it easy to see that. That said, I'm worried we're doing the same crap to Doo and that he'll have a bounceback to form next year, pitching for someone else.

[Slateman]

The biggest indictment against Rizzo isnt that the pen sucks, it's that we're two months in and the only thing he's done to fix it is Javy Guerra

[rileyn]

It's going to be uncomfortable next week for Rizzo when Giolito faces Eaton.  Giolito is dominant right now.

[DCFan]

It's going to be uncomfortable next week for Rizzo when Giolito faces Eaton.  Giolito is dominant right now.

That's funny because there wasn't a person on this board who didn't applaud that trade and gloat over Giolito's struggles (then).

[Slateman]

That's funny because there wasn't a person on this board who didn't applaud that trade and gloat over Giolito's struggles (then).

Uh ... I actually thought the Nationals gave up too much. Or, more precisely, waited to long to move on Giolito. Rizzo effectively sold low on Lil Gio.

[DCFan]

Uh ... I actually thought the Nationals gave up too much. Or, more precisely, waited to long to move on Giolito. Rizzo effectively sold low on Lil Gio.

And here we go with the revisionist history. 

[HalfSmokes]

That's funny because there wasn't a person on this board who didn't applaud that trade and gloat over Giolito's struggles (then).

It’s funny that a bunch of random dudes is the yardstick used to validate someone paid millions to be correct about player analysis

[DCFan]

It’s funny that a bunch of random dudes is the yardstick used to validate someone paid millions to be correct about player analysis

What are you dense? This board is full of baseball experts. Look around. 

[Count Walewski]

Notwithstanding Giolito's current sub-3.00 ERA, the Nationals would definitely have "won" the Eaton trade if Eaton wasn't injured two years in a row. You can't blame Rizzo for Eaton's bad luck.

[Slateman]

Notwithstanding Giolito's current sub-3.00 ERA, the Nationals would definitely have "won" the Eaton trade if Eaton wasn't injured two years in a row. You can't blame Rizzo for Eaton's bad luck.

This is such a big part of it. Even if Eaton produces at his ~3 WAR level those two seasons, that's definitely a fair trade. Now, it's clearly obvious Eaton has been hampered by the injuries.

[Elvir Ovcina]

Those seem like the kind of minor wins any gm who has been around as long as rizzo should have

I wouldn't call trading a reliever for six years of an above-average starting catcher on a minimum salary a minor win, but ok. 

[HalfSmokes]

I wouldn't call trading a reliever for six years of an above-average starting catcher on a minimum salary a minor win, but ok. 

Sure, no one ever unloads relievers for fielders - it’s not like that’s a staple of deadline deals or anything

[Slateman]

Sure, no one ever unloads relievers for fielders - it’s not like that’s a staple of deadline deals or anything

How many are that successful?

[Kevrock]

Capps for Ramos was awesome, not a minor win. It helped get the Twins GM fired

[HalfSmokes]

How many are that successful?

How many of Rizzo’s were successful?