Author Topic: Fire Rizzo  (Read 435650 times)

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Online Slateman

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #675 on: July 17, 2012, 02:54:53 pm »
If Rizzo's biggest flaw is that he doesn't sign good bench bats, I'm okay with that. Because he sure as hell drafts some good players :lol:

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #676 on: July 17, 2012, 03:00:26 pm »
Don't agree? Show me otherwise. Show me where guys who would start elswhere are signing lucrative contracts to be back-ups.

Andruw Jones, Endy Chavez, Jayson Nix would be a nice first three off the bench, but you're right, benches are composed of has beens, but when you add in veteran minimum, you're talking about even worse has beens

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #677 on: July 17, 2012, 03:01:07 pm »
Because he sure as hell drafts some good players :lol:

So far his mash unit isn't looking too promising

Offline ZimW1N

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #678 on: July 17, 2012, 03:02:49 pm »
It's not just that Rizzo signed Nady when no other team wanted him...and he's awful...but the fact that he was signed and someone, better and likely more expensive wasn't signed.  Rizzo's bench construction is terrible...but it is cheap.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it injury's that forced Nady onto the team. He was signed late Spring training as system filler for OF/1B and wasn't going to be on our MLB roster until Morse went down. Then Werth went to the DL and still gave him a place to play. I think our original bench plan was: Tracy, Flores, Lombo, DeRosa, Ankiel, Bernadina

That's far from a horrible bench.

Offline PC

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #679 on: July 17, 2012, 03:02:49 pm »
Nady was signed because of injury concerns to Laroche, Ankiel and Morse. Injuries which got worse as spring training began.

So no, there weren't better players available when Nady was signed to a minor league contract.

Lombo, Tracy, Ankiel, DeRosa (this one could be argued) and Flo would have made for an above average bench. 

Rizzo chased Dobbs but he decided to re-sign with the Fish.

.....

That's how benches are built for the most part.

Don't agree? Show me otherwise. Show me where guys who would start elswhere are signing lucrative contracts to be back-ups.

Thank you for tossing this right into my wheelhouse because every bit of evidence you used to counter my point is precisely what's wrong with the way Rizzo constructs his bench.

If you sign the best bench players available, early and compensate them thusly, you don't have to make desperate signings on March 18.  It's called being proactive.  And injuries happen, particularly with this team.  With this team, it happens every year, a starter (or two (or three)) miss considerable amounts of time due to injury.

And this ISN'T the way benches are constructed by good (big market teams that are willing to spend money on bench players).  Look at the Yankees bench, the Red Sox bench, the Dodgers bench.  And you mentioned Dobbs.  He signed for two years, three million dollars.  No bench player for the Nationals is signed for multiple years and no one makes anywhere near $1.5 million per season.  Even the Marlins know you can't expect to get good bench players for one year, veteran minimum.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #680 on: July 17, 2012, 03:03:29 pm »
So far his mash unit isn't looking too promising

How many medical cases have we signed anyway?

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #681 on: July 17, 2012, 03:05:41 pm »
How many medical cases have we signed anyway?

purke rendon. and giolito are the big ones

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #682 on: July 17, 2012, 03:09:51 pm »
Tracey was easily the best bench player in the league until he got hurt and he'll be back soon and Bernie, Lombo, Moore have been pretty good coming off the bench and for cripes sakes nobody cares about Nady

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #683 on: July 17, 2012, 03:17:47 pm »
Thank you for tossing this right into my wheelhouse


Online Slateman

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #684 on: July 17, 2012, 03:20:02 pm »
Tracey was easily the best bench player in the league until he got hurt and he'll be back soon and Bernie, Lombo, Moore have been pretty good coming off the bench and for cripes sakes nobody cares about Nady

Except they keep putting him on the roster. I'd like to drop DeRosa and Nady. One of those spots can go to Tracy when he comes back. The other is open competition at the Triple A level, with Corey Brown in the lead


Offline Glockypoo

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #685 on: July 17, 2012, 03:21:48 pm »
And this ISN'T the way benches are constructed by good (big market teams that are willing to spend money on bench players).  Look at the Yankees bench, the Red Sox bench, the Dodgers bench.  And you mentioned Dobbs.  He signed for two years, three million dollars.  No bench player for the Nationals is signed for multiple years and no one makes anywhere near $1.5 million per season.  Even the Marlins know you can't expect to get good bench players for one year, veteran minimum.

The Dodgers current bench contains Jerry Hairston, Tony Gwynn Jr. and Adam Kennedy. Rivera is a nice piece, I'll give you that.

The Yankees? Darnell Mc'effing'donald and Eric Chavez. Both washed up bums. People are all over Nix but the guy was awful prior to this year (and hasn't set the world on fire in 2012, either).

And are Kelly Shoppach and Nick Punto in Boston are really THAT much better than what we have?

And FWIW, Ankiel is making well north of $1 mill/year.

Our bench isn't great. It's average. And in a world where our current payroll is less than half of two of the teams you're complaining about, I'm good with that.






Offline Glockypoo

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #686 on: July 17, 2012, 03:22:51 pm »

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #687 on: July 17, 2012, 03:23:58 pm »
Except they keep putting him on the roster. I'd like to drop DeRosa and Nady. One of those spots can go to Tracy when he comes back. The other is open competition at the Triple A level, with Corey Brown in the lead



Yeah, but it hasn't really mattered has it? They probably want Corey Brown to play everyday anyway, and it's not like Nady is taking at bats away from anyone on the big club, so who cares. Really he just doesn't matter at all right now.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #688 on: July 17, 2012, 03:31:49 pm »

The Yankees? Darnell Mc'effing'donald and Eric Chavez. Both washed up bums. People are all over Nix but the guy was awful prior to this year (and hasn't set the world on fire in 2012, either).


andruw jones?

Offline PC

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #689 on: July 17, 2012, 03:35:23 pm »
The Dodgers current bench contains Jerry Hairston, Tony Gwynn Jr. and Adam Kennedy. Rivera is a nice piece, I'll give you that.

The Yankees? Darnell Mc'effing'donald and Eric Chavez. Both washed up bums. People are all over Nix but the guy was awful prior to this year (and hasn't set the world on fire in 2012, either).

And are Kelly Shoppach and Nick Punto in Boston are really THAT much better than what we have?

And FWIW, Ankiel is making well north of $1 mill/year.

Our bench isn't great. It's average. And in a world where our current payroll is less than half of two of the teams you're complaining about, I'm good with that.


I meant look at their benches before they had THEIR injuries.    :)

 The Red Sox had Cody Ross (signed for one year, $3 million), among others.  And Jerry Hairston is having a better season than anyone on our bench.  He's also signed for two years, six million dollars.

....and Rick Ankiel was going to start.  Remember Harper started the season in the minors.

Online KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #690 on: July 17, 2012, 03:35:43 pm »
I don't see our bench as the problem as much as organizational hitting depth.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #691 on: July 17, 2012, 03:38:42 pm »
I don't see our bench as the problem as much as organizational hitting depth.

catcher wouldn't have been a problem, but we upgraded the pitching staff- Gio + black hole at catcher is probably better than Milone + Norris

Offline Glockypoo

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #692 on: July 17, 2012, 03:39:56 pm »
andruw jones?

Jones is a nice piece but outside of a crazy week in July he hasn't exactly lit the world on fire.

Offline Glockypoo

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #693 on: July 17, 2012, 03:41:31 pm »
I meant look at their benches before they had THEIR injuries.    :)

 The Red Sox had Cody Ross (signed for one year, $3 million), among others.  And Jerry Hairston is having a better season than anyone on our bench.  He's also signed for two years, six million dollars.

I'd love to have Ross in DC and I'm not saying their benches aren't better (mostly because they are) but working on a budget that's as much as 1/2 of what the Sox and Yanks spend, I'm okay with having an okay bench.

Once 'ol Werth comes back and Lombo goes back to his super-utility role and Tracey returns from the DL, we'll have a more than serviceable bench - especially if T. Moore stays up.

That's all. I just don't think it's anything to go baserk about.




Offline Glockypoo

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #694 on: July 17, 2012, 03:42:41 pm »
....and Rick Ankiel was going to start.  Remember Harper started the season in the minors.

I'll concede that point, although I do think Rizzo and Davey knew it would only be for a month or so.


Offline PC

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #695 on: July 17, 2012, 03:45:42 pm »

That's all. I just don't think it's anything to go baserk about.


Oh, I've gone beserk over MUCH less! :lol:

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #696 on: July 17, 2012, 03:51:29 pm »
Jones is a nice piece but outside of a crazy week in July he hasn't exactly lit the world on fire.

you could say the same about tracy

Offline Glockypoo

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #697 on: July 17, 2012, 03:54:40 pm »
Oh, I've gone beserk over MUCH less! :lol:

Me too, my man. Me too.


Offline welch

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #698 on: July 17, 2012, 04:10:02 pm »
Tracey was easily the best bench player in the league until he got hurt and he'll be back soon and Bernie, Lombo, Moore have been pretty good coming off the bench and for cripes sakes nobody cares about Nady

I'll go with this base, and the addition that I wish the Nats would bring up Corey Brown. Agree that it's probably better for Bown -- and Moore -- to play everyday, but at some point they need to be with the Nats just because they are better than Nady/Derosa and last year's crew.

Catcher? Flores is OK, and Solanno as well. Flores doesn't hit like Ramos, but Ramos seemed clumsy bouncers. Rizzo built a deep system if he could trade one catching prospect, lose Ramos to the knee injury, and lose Leon to the ankle, but still have adequate catching.

Online KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #699 on: July 17, 2012, 04:15:03 pm »
catcher wouldn't have been a problem, but we upgraded the pitching staff- Gio + black hole at catcher is probably better than Milone + Norris

Espinosa and Lombo aren't really setting the world on fire and we have nothing at MI in the system except Rick Hague/Jason Martinson (too far away) and Rendon (hurt and also far away).