Author Topic: Fire Rizzo  (Read 263392 times)

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Offline Senatorswin

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4375: November 13, 2022, 07:24:00 PM »
Urquidy was projected for long relief. Valdez and Javier were projected to be single inning relievers.

Click oversaw an entire revamping of the front office. There is no one left from Luhnow's tenure. That revamped front office turned Framber Valdez into a top 10 pitcher baseball, Javier into a viable starter who gave up one hit in two playoff starts, and Urquidy was developed into a guy that half his starts were quality starts.

Oh and building/developing the bullpen that was Dusty-prood. Yea, no, Click is light years ahead of the dude who had to cheat to win a WS

We'll just have to disagree on this one. The majority of the starters on this years world series team were on the 2019 team. I don't think you can give the credit for some pitchers changing roles on click. That's more a function of the coaching staff. I don't see a lot of input by Click for this years world series win.

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4376: November 13, 2022, 07:45:23 PM »
Maybe the Nats should hire a GM who has taken a lousy team in the past and turned them into a winner. Oh wait, we already have that guy.

Rizzo already has upgraded the minor league teams with his recent trades. He's made some shrewd trades in the past that helped them become winners. They haven't drafted well but the Nats have also depleted their scouting and front office departments. Whoever the GM is he's going to be up against it because the GM doesn't do it by himself. The new owner is going to have to rebuild the scouting department and front office. Rizzo is the best man for that job.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4377: November 13, 2022, 08:04:10 PM »
Rizzo literally took a WS champion and ran it into the ground. At best he's Dombrowski and needs to move on to another stocked farm system with owners willing to spend.

Rizzo's scouting department sucks. His player development is worse. The game passed him by. So unless new ownership is going to dump a ton of money, Rizzo will just continually be putting below average teams on the field while telling us about "the reboot"

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4378: November 13, 2022, 09:56:13 PM »
Rizzo literally took a WS champion and ran it into the ground. At best he's Dombrowski and needs to move on to another stocked farm system with owners willing to spend.

Rizzo's scouting department sucks. His player development is worse. The game passed him by. So unless new ownership is going to dump a ton of money, Rizzo will just continually be putting below average teams on the field while telling us about "the reboot"

That's my point. Rizzo's scouting department does suck. The Nationals got rid of a lot of their scouts and front office. I guess nobody going to malls anymore tightened the Lerners purse strings and they felt they had to cut corners wherever possible. The new owners will have to rebuild the whole organization whoever the GM is.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4379: November 13, 2022, 10:16:11 PM »
That's my point. Rizzo's scouting department does suck. The Nationals got rid of a lot of their scouts and front office. I guess nobody going to malls anymore tightened the Lerners purse strings and they felt they had to cut corners wherever possible. The new owners will have to rebuild the whole organization whoever the GM is.
Rizzo's scouting department had sucked for over 5 years.

Offline blue911

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4380: November 14, 2022, 05:37:15 AM »
Rizzo's scouting department had sucked for over 5 years.

To me it dovetails into the crappy analytics department. I don’t think Rizzo fully understands how to use the raw data teams have at their fingertips.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4381: November 14, 2022, 07:40:16 AM »
To me it dovetails into the crappy analytics department. I don’t think Rizzo fully understands how to use the raw data teams have at their fingertips.
Rizzo is responsible for that as well. Rizzo did nothing to improve the analytics department or player development, despite having ample opportunities. He has simply shuffled the same people around.

Would have been fine in a world where he's allowed to spend in the 90th percentile of MLB.  But now that the purse has been tightened, he's been exposed. We need fresh blood that will come in and revamp our front office and player development.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4382: November 14, 2022, 09:01:58 AM »
Rizzo is responsible for that as well. Rizzo did nothing to improve the analytics department or player development, despite having ample opportunities. He has simply shuffled the same people around.

Would have been fine in a world where he's allowed to spend in the 90th percentile of MLB.  But now that the purse has been tightened, he's been exposed. We need fresh blood that will come in and revamp our front office and player development.
New ownership will likely come in and take a look at him for a year.  So if they come on board next year he is here through 2024. Rizzo is like a fine wine that aged. But poorly.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4383: November 14, 2022, 09:08:31 AM »
New ownership will likely come in and take a look at him for a year.  So if they come on board next year he is here through 2024. Rizzo is like a fine wine that aged. But poorly.
Which means we'll miss out on a really good GM candidate

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4384: November 14, 2022, 10:29:16 AM »
New ownership will likely come in and take a look at him for a year.  So if they come on board next year he is here through 2024. Rizzo is like a fine wine that aged. But poorly.

By 2024 the Nats will be on the rebound with young talent and Rizzo will be re-upped for 4 more years.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4385: November 14, 2022, 11:03:16 AM »
To me it dovetails into the crappy analytics department. I don’t think Rizzo fully understands how to use the raw data teams have at their fingertips.

Austin Voth even said publicly the Nats had all this data, but no one knew how to coach him using the data, but the Orioles did!

Our entire front office is run by dinosaurs and that extends down to the player development and coaching side. I'm sure Rizzo's crack team of coaches who played alongside Babe Ruth will be able to develop James Wood and Brady House.

Online imref

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4386: November 14, 2022, 11:12:23 AM »
Austin Voth even said publicly the Nats had all this data, but no one knew how to coach him using the data, but the Orioles did!


OTOH, Hunter Harvey.

Offline welch

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4387: November 14, 2022, 12:06:22 PM »
Austin Voth even said publicly the Nats had all this data, but no one knew how to coach him using the data, but the Orioles did!

Our entire front office is run by dinosaurs and that extends down to the player development and coaching side. I'm sure Rizzo's crack team of coaches who played alongside Babe Ruth will be able to develop James Wood and Brady House.

Ah, "The Legend of Austin Voth, or How Loads of Data Made Him a Great Pitcher". Sure, Voth had a decent year with the Nats in 2019. Perhaps we should watch Voth for most of 2023 before believing that he has become an ace, almost.

...while remembering that the 2019 Astros proudly claimed that they had no advanced scouts, that a data-driven team did not need them.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4388: November 14, 2022, 12:08:37 PM »
OTOH, Hunter Harvey.

What about him? The issue has never been his talent, he literally is always hurt.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4389: November 14, 2022, 12:09:41 PM »
Ah, "The Legend of Austin Voth, or How Loads of Data Made Him a Great Pitcher". Sure, Voth had a decent year with the Nats in 2019. Perhaps we should watch Voth for most of 2023 before believing that he has become an ace, almost.

...while remembering that the 2019 Astros proudly claimed that they had no advanced scouts, that a data-driven team did not need them.

No one is expecting Voth to become an ace but on a team absolutely desperate for any decent pitching this organization completely failed, once again, to develop a player. I can't think of one real development win we've had since like Ian Desmond. Sick organization!

Also the Astros have literally built a dynasty-level team so whatever they're doing is working.

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4390: November 14, 2022, 12:27:23 PM »
No one is expecting Voth to become an ace but on a team absolutely desperate for any decent pitching this organization completely failed, once again, to develop a player. I can't think of one real development win we've had since like Ian Desmond. Sick organization!

Also the Astros have literally built a dynasty-level team so whatever they're doing is working.


I think they are using hacks. Like, the Astros are using Gameshark.

Online imref

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4391: November 14, 2022, 05:20:52 PM »
What about him? The issue has never been his talent, he literally is always hurt.

he pitched a lot better here than in Baltimore.

WRT to Voth, yes he was great for the first couple of months, but he was returning to the mean by the end of the year. Final 6 starts in September: 3.86 ERA, 4.70 FIP,  opponents batted .311 against him.

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4392: November 14, 2022, 06:48:36 PM »
Ah, "The Legend of Austin Voth, or How Loads of Data Made Him a Great Pitcher". Sure, Voth had a decent year with the Nats in 2019. Perhaps we should watch Voth for most of 2023 before believing that he has become an ace, almost.

...while remembering that the 2019 Astros proudly claimed that they had no advanced scouts, that a data-driven team did not need them.

Are you actually implying that you prefer what the Nats have accomplished throughout the last four years over what the Astros have done???  :clown: :clown:

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4393: November 14, 2022, 07:26:58 PM »
Are you actually implying that you prefer what the Nats have accomplished throughout the last four years over what the Astros have done???  :clown: :clown:
Well the Nats have the same number of titles in that time and didn’t cheat. 

Offline Slateman

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4394: November 14, 2022, 07:54:14 PM »
Well the Nats have the same number of titles in that time and didn’t cheat. 
We have evidence that the Astros cheated this year?

Nats may have the same number if titles, but the franchises are light years apart.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4395: November 14, 2022, 08:07:27 PM »
We have evidence that the Astros cheated this year?

Nats may have the same number if titles, but the franchises are light years apart.
Give it time.
This should have been their first title. The 2017 one should have been vacated. Would rather have the Nats be like Braves or even the Cards.

Offline DCsOwn

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4396: November 14, 2022, 08:24:39 PM »

Offline Slateman

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4397: November 14, 2022, 08:25:41 PM »
Give it time.
This should have been their first title. The 2017 one should have been vacated. Would rather have the Nats be like Braves or even the Cards.
Braves, sure. Cards, not anymore. They always spend just enough to be competitive, but never actually go for it.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4398: November 14, 2022, 08:49:40 PM »
Braves, sure. Cards, not anymore. They always spend just enough to be competitive, but never actually go for it.
They still seem to draft and develop well. Better than the Nats in any event.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4399: November 14, 2022, 08:50:41 PM »