Author Topic: Fire Rizzo  (Read 207407 times)

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Offline varoadking

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4075: May 23, 2019, 07:15:46 PM »
Rizzo? Are you serious?!. :lmao:

He's damaged good like Rusty...good regular season but couldn't close out a postseason series.  Total loser...

Online Slateman

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4076: May 23, 2019, 07:52:55 PM »
He's damaged good like Rusty...good regular season but couldn't close out a postseason series.  Total loser...
Lol, another team will gobble him up to run a scouting department within hours of him getting his walking papers

Offline varoadking

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4077: May 23, 2019, 08:32:09 PM »
Lol, another team will gobble him up to run a scouting department within hours of him getting his walking papers

That's not the same as a GM job...I'm sure he could get a job selling programs too...

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4078: May 23, 2019, 08:37:51 PM »
Rizzo will get a GM or President job if he's let go. Might have a placeholder job for a single season.

Offline mitlen

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4079: May 23, 2019, 08:38:44 PM »
Rizzo will get a GM or President job if he's let go.

President of what?    :panic:

Offline Air Desmond

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4080: May 23, 2019, 08:59:32 PM »
Quote
“Our expectations have grown to the fact that winning regular-season games and winning divisions," Nationals GM Mike Rizzo said on a conference call, “are not enough. Our goal is to win a world championship.’’

This quote will forever live in infamy.

From winning regular season games and division titles, to being one of the worst teams in baseball. Life comes at you fast.

Offline bluestreak

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4081: May 23, 2019, 09:18:03 PM »
That's not the same as a GM job...I'm sure he could get a job selling programs too...

Yeah, but whoever said that said he’d never get a job in baseball again. Which is patently ridiculous.

Offline spidernat

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4082: May 23, 2019, 09:30:17 PM »
Yeah, but whoever said that said he’d never get a job in baseball again. Which is patently ridiculous.



the same was said about Jim Riggleman

Online Slateman

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4083: May 23, 2019, 09:30:31 PM »
That's not the same as a GM job...I'm sure he could get a job selling programs too...

Nats4ever said another job in baseball.

Offline shoeshineboy

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4084: May 24, 2019, 11:19:03 AM »
I can't believe Martinez survived the return from the roadtrip, but this is the Lerners. They don't do anything that other baseball teams would do, because they hate cutting ties with anything they have already paid for (e.g. Rosenthal).

But regardless of all the reasons it makes sense to dump Davy, Rizzo should be fired for this bullpen situation, and the Lerners should be ashamed of their cheapness. With three top caliber starters in the rotation, you have to have a bridge to your closer. The 8th inning has been the complete undoing of this team. An average team gives up .5 runs an inning. The Nats 8th inning stat is a historically awful 1.02. An average performance from a reliable 8th inning reliever would reduce the run differential by 25 runs and have them around .500 ball with the Mets. Given that they have melted down in so many divisional games, who knows how that would have panned out. Not investing in one if not two reliable set up guys to handle the bridge to the closer is unforgivable. Lerners just don't get it, and it appears Rizzo is either incapable of understanding the importance of a bullpen or has never been able to convince the Lerners otherwise. He has had that reputation across the league for years, and now he is seeing its worst effects.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4085: May 24, 2019, 11:20:57 AM »
Stupid cheap lerners- they should be fielding the highest payroll in baseball if they want to hold their heads high

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4086: May 24, 2019, 02:17:17 PM »
Rizzo will get a GM or President job if he's let go. Might have a placeholder job for a single season.

Definitely, but will he get one with a top payroll team? He's only good when he can out spend the competition.

Online Slateman

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4087: May 24, 2019, 02:20:15 PM »
Definitely, but will he get one with a top payroll team? He's only good when he can out spend the competition.

:lmao: Really? You dont really understand anything about baseball,  do you

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4088: May 24, 2019, 03:11:55 PM »
Definitely, but will he get one with a top payroll team? He's only good when he can out spend the competition.

Maybe? Worse GMs have gotten second chances with major teams. 

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4089: May 24, 2019, 03:43:08 PM »
Rizzo will 100% get another GM/president job quickly, I give him a lot of crap but there are so many terrible GMs and front office types that he is solidly above-average at worst. I don't know if he would fit running a team like Tampa or Pittsburgh, but someone like Seattle or the Angels or (lol) Arizona would probably be a good fit for him.

He's made all win-now moves for almost 10 years and our lack of organizational depth is the result of that. Really, he was super successful in trades and signings up until last year. The biggest blunders were things like Papelbon, Oliver Perez, etc. and of course managers, but every GM has flaws. He needs a budget to compete because nothing in his history tells me he's super forward-thinking in terms of roster construction or adapting to trends.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4090: May 24, 2019, 03:45:29 PM »
Rizzo will 100% get another GM/president job quickly, I give him a lot of crap but there are so many terrible GMs and front office types that he is solidly above-average at worst. I don't know if he would fit running a team like Tampa or Pittsburgh, but someone like Seattle or the Angels or (lol) Arizona would probably be a good fit for him.

If he’s financially hamstrung with our budget, he’ll need to land somewhere like LA (of course Moreno isn’t hand off either)

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4091: May 28, 2019, 09:21:44 AM »
Payroll is incredibly concentrated in about 5 guys, FWIW.  I don't know if that's normal, but basically Max, Stras, Corbin, RZ, and Rendon make up 60% of that $200MM (per Cot's spread sheet, it's $125MM of the 25 man's $197MM, including pro-rated bonuses, and $110MM of $197MM v. the CBT https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-t4BlpC_npBSj6KFivtDkuqtmEu5Vlk2yPvMZD_UkuQ/pubhtml  ).  That makes misallocating money to Dozier ($9MM), Sanchez ($8MM), and Rosenthal ($6MM) much more consequential. You can add in Gomes ($7MM) after you have signed Suzuki.  That's $30MM on an older bounce back guy, an end of the line starter who you are trying to squeeze 2 years out of after only 1 bounceback year, a post-TJ guy with control issues, and a redundancy. 
I posted the above in the fire Davey thread, but it is more relevant here. 

Online Slateman

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4092: May 28, 2019, 09:30:44 AM »
I don't mind redundancy at catcher. We've seen what happens when your only catcher gets hurt

Dozier is a train wreck and Rizzo needs to evaluate himself and his staff. They have to figure out how they thought Dozier would bounce back.

Rosenthal ... I mean, there were other teams interested. And he looked really good in Spring Training.

Offline nats2playoffs

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4093: May 28, 2019, 10:19:44 AM »
Rizzo will 100% get another GM/president job quickly, I give him a lot of poop but there are so many terrible GMs and front office types that he is solidly above-average at worst. I don't know if he would fit running a team like Tampa or Pittsburgh, but someone like Seattle or the Angels or (lol) Arizona would probably be a good fit for him.

He's made all win-now moves for almost 10 years and our lack of organizational depth is the result of that. Really, he was super successful in trades and signings up until last year. The biggest blunders were things like Papelbon, Oliver Perez, etc. and of course managers, but every GM has flaws. He needs a budget to compete because nothing in his history tells me he's super forward-thinking in terms of roster construction or adapting to trends.

Most think that getting Soriano and Papelbon as closers were examples of the Lerners playing fantasy baseball (looking at past performance instead of considering the likely future performance of aging players), and ordering Rizzo to get them.
 :pimp:

Online Slateman

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4094: May 28, 2019, 10:50:36 AM »
Truth, that's more on Rizzo than Davey.  I'm a Gomes fan, and, TBH, liked Dozier through his career, but it is an issue of structuring your payroll and putting the money where it is needed. 
I agree. To me, the biggest one is Dozier. You can't blame that on a injury from last year. It's obvious that Rizzo missed something during the scouting process.

Rizzo put the money where it was needed. He just didn't know he'd have to make up for Rosenthal being a train wreck, nor the massive regression by the pen.

Online Slateman

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4095: May 28, 2019, 10:51:06 AM »
Most think that getting Soriano and Papelbon as closers were examples of the Lerners playing fantasy baseball (looking at past performance instead of considering the likely future performance of aging players), and ordering Rizzo to get them.
 :pimp:
I think Papelbon was the result of Rizzo not wanting to give up a lot, and the Lerners not wanting to pay

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4096: May 28, 2019, 11:09:54 AM »
Both were necessary because the closer Rizzo took in the first round consistently crumbled under pressure

Online Slateman

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4097: May 28, 2019, 11:12:17 AM »
Both were necessary because the closer Rizzo took in the first round consistently crumbled under pressure
True, but how do you even draft for that position?

Online Slateman

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4098: May 28, 2019, 11:23:59 AM »
There weren't a lot of good FA options at 2B unfortunately.  LeMahieu was arguably the best out there, but as we've discussed before his numbers away from Coors weren't all that good, and he wanted a longer term, richer deal (he got 2/$24 million from the Yankees).  The Nationals weren't going to spend that kind of money on him when they've got Kieboom waiting in the wings.  As a one-year stop-gap, Dozier made sense.   His May numbers:  .238 / .309 /.393, isn't all that far off of his career norms.

Those numbers are significantly off what he put up 2015-2017. His average and OBP aren't high enough to sustain so little slugging.


Offline Count Walewski

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Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #4099: May 28, 2019, 11:33:21 AM »
Seems to me like it's really hard to disentangle causation here.

Is Rizzo bad at scouting and drafting, or is there a failure in either scouting or player development below him?

Is Rizzo bad at trades and payroll structuring, or he doing the best he can with an activist owner who has poor instincts?

Rizzo was widely considered a genius when the Nats were rebuilding and the Nats now seem likely to be rebuilding again soon.