Author Topic: Fire Rizzo  (Read 207106 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Slateman

  • Posts: 51827
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3900: April 03, 2019, 09:22:22 AM »
I've been a Rizzo supporter, and continue to be because I think the Lerner's are difficult to deal with, but it's almost becoming time to press the reset button.  His two biggest blunders are hiring Matt Williams and then hiring Davey Martinez.  I know he wanted to keep Dusty and the Lerners forced that firing, but he he was smitten with Martinez for some reason.  His bullpen building is also clearly an issue and when you combine that with the manager he hired trying to make use of it, you are left with a steaming pile. 

We are past time. And hiring Dusty was the worst mistake. Dusty gave him false hope.

Rizzo tries to build bullpens on the cheap. I don't know if that is because the Lerners won't let him spend the money (after the Soriano and Papelbon fiascos), or if he doesn't know how to do it. Frankly, I think it's a bit of combination, with him being too slow to convert starters to relievers. Case in point: Joe Ross should have been converted a year ago.

Offline Baseball is Life

  • Posts: 19819
  • Proud member of the Sunshine Squad.
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3901: April 03, 2019, 09:27:30 AM »
Yeah, if this year goes south then I'm all in on cleaning house. And that means Rizzo needs to go.

Online imref

  • Posts: 29736
  • 1B: The New Hot Corner
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3902: April 03, 2019, 09:35:55 AM »
We are past time. And hiring Dusty was the worst mistake. Dusty gave him false hope.

Rizzo tries to build bullpens on the cheap. I don't know if that is because the Lerners won't let him spend the money (after the Soriano and Papelbon fiascos), or if he doesn't know how to do it. Frankly, I think it's a bit of combination, with him being too slow to convert starters to relievers. Case in point: Joe Ross should have been converted a year ago.

We're paying Soriano $2 million this year, maybe he can still pitch?

Offline Duke of Earl

  • Posts: 317
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3903: April 03, 2019, 11:58:26 AM »
Yeah, if this year goes south then I'm all in on cleaning house. And that means Rizzo needs to go.
How do the Lerners go about selecting a new President/GM without Rizzo to consult with?  That's a question that's always bothered me, how does an owner go about replacing his top guy, when the owner himself doesn't have any particular expertise or experience.

Offline varoadking

  • Posts: 26579
  • King of Goodness
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3904: April 03, 2019, 12:04:01 PM »
How do the Lerners go about selecting a new President/GM without Rizzo to consult with?  That's a question that's always bothered me, how does an owner go about replacing his top guy, when the owner himself doesn't have any particular expertise or experience.

Same way they hire a manager...they interview a bunch of guys, and whoever will work the cheapest gets the job...

Online imref

  • Posts: 29736
  • 1B: The New Hot Corner
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3905: April 03, 2019, 12:06:18 PM »
Same way they hire a manager...they interview a bunch of guys, and whoever will work the cheapest gets the job...

:hysterical:

Offline Kevrock

  • Posts: 12656
  • Troll So Hard University
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3906: April 03, 2019, 12:07:32 PM »
How do the Lerners go about selecting a new President/GM without Rizzo to consult with?  That's a question that's always bothered me, how does an owner go about replacing his top guy, when the owner himself doesn't have any particular expertise or experience.

Same way any business owner would, and boy do the Lerners treat this like a business.

Offline LoveAngelos

  • Posts: 1100
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3907: April 03, 2019, 12:21:14 PM »
A long time ago after Bodes left he said "The problems is the Lerners treat the baseball team like it is one of their shopping centers"

Offline Kevrock

  • Posts: 12656
  • Troll So Hard University
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3908: April 03, 2019, 12:23:24 PM »
Yeah. And the thing is they are so egregious with all the deferred money and treatment of managers. It's not even a business I would want to work for. It stinks following this team after a long day at work, it's more of the same.

Online UMDNats

  • Posts: 16342
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3909: April 03, 2019, 12:55:06 PM »
Yeah. And the thing is they are so egregious with all the deferred money and treatment of managers. It's not even a business I would want to work for. It stinks following this team after a long day at work, it's more of the same.

The deferred money is so ridiculous. 29 other teams find a way to compete without having to pay players 80 cents on the dollar. The Lerners are a sneaky bad ownership group that are masked by the Wizards being a crapshow and Dan Snyder existing.

Offline carlosdelvaca

  • Posts: 41
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3910: April 03, 2019, 01:05:30 PM »
The deferred money is so ridiculous. 29 other teams find a way to compete without having to pay players 80 cents on the dollar.

OK, not to defend the practice, but: the Nats are far from the only team to do this. They may do it more often and more prominently than others, but the Mets and Red Sox seem to defer money often.
https://bustedcoverage.com/2018/07/01/someone-listed-all-of-the-future-mlb-deferred-payments-in-honor-bobby-bonilla-day/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/apnewsbreak-sales-new-deal-includes-50m-in-deferred-money/2019/03/26/e37dd5ce-503c-11e9-bdb7-44f948cc0605_story.html?utm_term=.1423540188f4

Online spidernat

  • Posts: 74948
  • The Lerners are Cheap AND Crooked
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3911: April 03, 2019, 01:05:56 PM »
The deferred money is so ridiculous.



this is a big issue

Online HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 20184
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3912: April 03, 2019, 01:33:17 PM »
The nats have a cash flow problem that other big market teams simply don’t have- would people prefer that they just spend like a small market team while it gets resolved?

Offline Slateman

  • Posts: 51827
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3913: April 03, 2019, 01:35:53 PM »
The nats have a cash flow problem that other big market teams simply don’t have- would people prefer that they just spend like a small market team while it gets resolved?

The Nat are owned by billionaires. They do not have a cash flow problem

Online HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 20184
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3914: April 03, 2019, 01:46:32 PM »
The Nat are owned by billionaires. They do not have a cash flow problem

Just to play along, let’s say Mark wants to sign a guy real bad and puts $100 million of his own money into the team- how does that work? Does his new investment dilute the minority owners or do they have to throw in money proportional to their share (do they get a say)?

Offline Duke of Earl

  • Posts: 317
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3915: April 03, 2019, 02:03:48 PM »
Do they defer money for payroll considerations? to avoid going over the limit. Which just pushes the problem into the future.  If so, this is a real problem.

Or do they do it in order to inflate the perceived value?  That's a trick, everyone sees through it, and who cares?  If Harper is offered $30M AAV and deferred payments drive down the effective value to $25M, then $25M is the number he uses to base a decision on.  If Scherzer's $210M is effectively $180M, then $180M is the number he uses.  Really, who cares?

Online bluestreak

  • Posts: 8716
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3916: April 03, 2019, 02:12:50 PM »
Do they defer money for payroll considerations? to avoid going over the limit. Which just pushes the problem into the future.  If so, this is a real problem.

Or do they do it in order to inflate the perceived value?  That's a trick, everyone sees through it, and who cares?  If Harper is offered $30M AAV and deferred payments drive down the effective value to $25M, then $25M is the number he uses to base a decision on.  If Scherzer's $210M is effectively $180M, then $180M is the number he uses.  Really, who cares?

It’s based on the contact value divided by the number of years. So if makes you more likely to go over the cap in the near term, if I have this correct.

If they had just given Max 180 up front, then the cap hit would be less than 210 deferred over years.

Also, there is no set formula for this, it all depends on the individual’s discount rate which takes into effect prediction of future interest rates and how an individual values money now vs money later.

This is at least my understanding of the situation.

Offline Slateman

  • Posts: 51827
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3917: April 03, 2019, 02:24:26 PM »
Just to play along, let’s say Mark wants to sign a guy real bad and puts $100 million of his own money into the team- how does that work? Does his new investment dilute the minority owners or do they have to throw in money proportional to their share (do they get a say)?

Hes not putting it into the company. Hes paying for assets.

Online HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 20184
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3918: April 03, 2019, 02:28:44 PM »
Hes not putting it into the company. Hes paying for assets.

Where in the mlbpa contract does it alow a non party to be responsible for payment?

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/files/mlb-contract.pdf

Treating billion dollar multi member LLCs like sole proprietorships where you can just toss in a few bucks is either naive or trolling 

Offline mmzznnxx

  • Posts: 11873
  • lol Nats
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3919: April 03, 2019, 04:25:34 PM »
Rizzo did another bang up job building a bullpen, this one's among his greatest hits. Of which our bullpen coincidentally allows a ton of.

Offline Slateman

  • Posts: 51827
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3920: April 03, 2019, 04:28:16 PM »
Where in the mlbpa contract does it alow a non party to be responsible for payment?

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/files/mlb-contract.pdf

Treating billion dollar multi member LLCs like sole proprietorships where you can just toss in a few bucks is either naive or trolling 
Then sell the naming rights of the stadium to yourself. Sorry, but the idea that they don't have money and have to defer payments.

Online HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 20184
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3921: April 03, 2019, 04:31:24 PM »
Then sell the naming rights of the stadium to yourself. Sorry, but the idea that they don't have money and have to defer payments.

They have the 7th highest payroll in the 10th largest market and you want them to spend more :lmao:

Online UMDNats

  • Posts: 16342
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3922: April 03, 2019, 04:35:32 PM »
$200 million and one bullpen arm.

Offline Slateman

  • Posts: 51827
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3923: April 03, 2019, 05:04:24 PM »
$200 million and one bullpen arm.

One? Excuse me but Doolittle and Barcough are two

Online dracnal

  • Posts: 1398
Re: Fire Rizzo
« Reply #3924: April 03, 2019, 07:42:18 PM »
One? Excuse me but Doolittle and Barcough are two

Barraclough's ERA is 2.7 for one reason. The other 4ish runs were inherited runners he allowed to score.