Author Topic: Mike Rizzo gets 5 year extension, promotion  (Read 2099 times)

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Offline Vega

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Re: Mike Rizzo gets 5 year extension, promotion
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2010, 04:48:14 pm »
Career minor league walk rate of 3%,
Holy...

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: Mike Rizzo gets 5 year extension, promotion
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2010, 04:50:27 pm »
good for riz. 

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Mike Rizzo gets 5 year extension, promotion
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2010, 04:52:06 pm »

Offline imref

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Re: Mike Rizzo gets 5 year extension, promotion
« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2010, 05:28:02 pm »
Kilgore says the promotion eliminates the oversight and puts Rizzo directly below the owners, so it looks like they won't hire a Kasten replacement.

Offline The Chief

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Re: Mike Rizzo gets 5 year extension, promotion
« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2010, 05:50:59 pm »
Kilgore says the promotion eliminates the oversight and puts Rizzo directly below the owners, so it looks like they won't hire a Kasten replacement.

IMO that can only be a good thing, at least if the anecdote about Rizzo being patient and convincing the Lerners to his way of thinking was accurate.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Mike Rizzo gets 5 year extension, promotion
« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2010, 05:57:33 pm »
NeedANewNick can't say it's for the low salary anymore :crazy: :lol:

Offline The Chief

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Re: Mike Rizzo gets 5 year extension, promotion
« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2010, 05:59:32 pm »
NeedANewNick can't say it's for the low salary anymore :crazy: :lol:

Why not?  We don't know what he's being paid, or that there's not a team-friendly buyout clause.

Offline shoeshineboy

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Re: Mike Rizzo gets 5 year extension, promotion
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2010, 06:13:38 pm »
I don't follow you SSB.

Here is the thinking. Rizzo has always aspired to be a GM. He got the job with the Nats, and like any GM knows that his ability to remain employed in baseball at that level or higher within any team and maximize his income is based on him being deemed successful. So we can assume Rizzo wants to be viewed as successful as possible. As a rookie GM under Kasten with no long-term GM contract, Rizzo had no job security and would clearly be motivated to demonstrate his worth sooner than later. He is already on the record as telling the scouts he recruited that he believes they are all judged by the success of the big league club. All of that boded well for Rizzo being a guy who was interested in seeing the team make incremental moves as to get better as quickly as possible - i.e. make the Nats a winner before he gets dumped to the curb with no other team interested in giving him the same kind of job and needing to go back to the type of role he had in AZ and under Bowden.

Enter the Lerners - who may or may not be so motivated to win sooner than later if patience leads to lower risk and dependable profits. They see no need for such aggressive moves and are content to continue on a slow path, especially since the Strasburg TJ surgery is viewed as a year-long set back in plans. Forget 2011 they say, and even 2012. Carry on the path started by Stan and simply keep watering the cheap seeds in the farm until the greatness sprouts from within. Under that scenario, the only way to keep an undercompensated GM content to stretch out the plan and slow roll the investment is to give him job security for a few years.

It's the reason why Presidential candidates come up with four-year plans. If the terms were two years, they'd have two year plans. Given them six, they'll take it.

On the surface, it is difficult to see the extension and promotion of Rizzo as anything but inherently positive. Rizzo has done so many things well and so many things right, that extending the rare bright spot shouldn't have anything inherently negative about it. But he is not the one to worry about. The only concern is whether this deal with the devils (in this case Mark and Ted's excrement adventure) turned Rizzo's plan from a one to two year plan to a three to five year plan overnight. 

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Mike Rizzo gets 5 year extension, promotion
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2010, 06:49:29 pm »
He still values defense over offense at 1B, even when the current 1B showed to be perfect capable in the field.

Until Rizzo overcomes his mindset of defense, defense, defense, he'll always be less than what he could be.

Also, he prefers guys that pitch to contact. You cannot win without guys that strikeout hitters. I'm not sure Mike understands this.

Offline NatsDad14

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Re: Mike Rizzo gets 5 year extension, promotion
« Reply #34 on: October 19, 2010, 06:56:54 pm »
He still values defense over offense at 1B, even when the current 1B showed to be perfect capable in the field.

Until Rizzo overcomes his mindset of defense, defense, defense, he'll always be less than what he could be.

Also, he prefers guys that pitch to contact. You cannot win without guys that strikeout hitters. I'm not sure Mike understands this.
Are we sure that Rizzo doesn't understand or that he has been handicapped because strikeout pitchers are expensive.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Mike Rizzo gets 5 year extension, promotion
« Reply #35 on: October 19, 2010, 07:00:08 pm »
Why not?  We don't know what he's being paid, or that there's not a team-friendly buyout clause.

You really think we would take a 5 year extension to get paid far less than the other GM's, an assertion that was totally groundless in the first place? He'd be trying to get out of town as quick as possible.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Mike Rizzo gets 5 year extension, promotion
« Reply #36 on: October 19, 2010, 07:04:33 pm »
I don't follow you SSB.

Will Carol and others have argued that a GM will be under pressure to win soon to keep their job (do you really want to be the guy who builds a team your successor gets credit for winning with?) and may mortgage the future in order to do so.  A longer contract may mean a longer time frame

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Mike Rizzo gets 5 year extension, promotion
« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2010, 07:12:30 pm »
Are we sure that Rizzo doesn't understand or that he has been handicapped because strikeout pitchers are expensive.

Expensive? Are you saying the Nats won't give Rizzo the money needed to compete?

Offline Sharp

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Re: Mike Rizzo gets 5 year extension, promotion
« Reply #38 on: October 19, 2010, 07:28:07 pm »
He still values defense over offense at 1B, even when the current 1B showed to be perfect capable in the field.

Until Rizzo overcomes his mindset of defense, defense, defense, he'll always be less than what he could be.

Also, he prefers guys that pitch to contact. You cannot win without guys that strikeout hitters. I'm not sure Mike understands this.
Um, of course Rizzo understands that.  Everyone understands that.  That's why they're so difficult to get, and the ones you can get are usually wild too.

Offline shoeshineboy

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Re: Mike Rizzo gets 5 year extension, promotion
« Reply #39 on: October 19, 2010, 07:48:11 pm »
I haven't heard Rizzo say that he prefers pitch to contact guys. I've heard him say he likes groundball pitchers, which he should. A guy that gets a lot of GB outs isn't necessarily a guy who won't get strikeouts. Obviously a guy who combines weak groundball outs with a ton of Ks is a hot commodity that any GM would want. I always figured Rizzo was looking at the GB pitchers as something he looks for in general when filling out a pitching staff, not that he would turn his back on a power pitching ace.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Mike Rizzo gets 5 year extension, promotion
« Reply #40 on: October 19, 2010, 07:53:57 pm »
All I'm saying is the Nats finished third worst in K/9 for starters in 2010, and 10th highest in GB%.

Neither one helped the team.

Playing for contact is risky business.

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: Mike Rizzo gets 5 year extension, promotion
« Reply #41 on: October 19, 2010, 07:59:15 pm »
Expensive? Are you saying the Nats won't give Rizzo the money needed to compete?

HAHA YES

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Mike Rizzo gets 5 year extension, promotion
« Reply #42 on: October 19, 2010, 08:03:11 pm »
While this is not a quote of Rizzo saying he prefers pitch to contact, he does mention in a radio interview this past January that they've put together a pitch to contact staff.

http://mobile.federalbaseball.com/2010/1/27/1272490/washington-nationals-dc-gm-mike

Quote from: Mike Rizzo
"Well, we've got some feelers out to a lot of different players, a lot of different positions, we're trying to get better defensively up the middle, you know, we've put together kind of a 'pitch-to-contact' rotation here so we certainly need to get better defensively."

Now, while some will say he's just playing the hand he was dealt, I disagree.

Marquis, Wang, both sinkerballers that don't rack up K's. While there wasn't a ton out there, he certainly could have found a pitcher that's probably going to be more fly ball orientated, but also is going to strikeout more hitters, as well.

I'm not saying Mike will never change his stance, but I do disagree with the philosophy that 'pitch-to-contact' is the best way to building a winning ball club.

Offline Sharp

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Re: Mike Rizzo gets 5 year extension, promotion
« Reply #43 on: October 19, 2010, 08:10:57 pm »
Pitch-to-contact works great as long as you avoid walks, especially if you're filling out the bottom half of a rotation.  Maddux put together some of the best pitching seasons ever without posting a K/9 much above 7 in any one year.  Pitch-to-contact guys are also vastly cheaper and more numerous than strikeout guys.  Now, that doesn't mean you want a lineup of all pitch-to-contact guys, like the Nats have had for a long time.  That's why Rizzo drafted power pitchers so high last year.  But having your 3-4-5 be that type of pitcher is hardly unreasonable, as long as your number three is actually good at it and your 1-2 can get the K's.  That's the strategy used successfully over the past decade by overperforming teams like the A's and Twins: great defense behind solid contact guys.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Mike Rizzo gets 5 year extension, promotion
« Reply #44 on: October 19, 2010, 08:14:16 pm »
And I'm fine with that... but watching four guys pitch to contact and having Livo fooling people with 65 MPH curve balls as the fifth pitcher, I sure am tired of a bunch of 4/3 K/BB nights from the starters.

Offline PC

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Re: Mike Rizzo gets 5 year extension, promotion
« Reply #45 on: October 19, 2010, 08:18:39 pm »
Pitch-to-contact works great as long as you avoid walks, especially if you're filling out the bottom half of a rotation.  Maddux put together some of the best pitching seasons ever without posting a K/9 much above 7 in any one year.  Pitch-to-contact guys are also vastly cheaper and more numerous than strikeout guys.  Now, that doesn't mean you want a lineup of all pitch-to-contact guys, like the Nats have had for a long time.  That's why Rizzo drafted power pitchers so high last year.  But having your 3-4-5 be that type of pitcher is hardly unreasonable, as long as your number three is actually good at it and your 1-2 can get the K's.  That's the strategy used successfully over the past decade by overperforming teams like the A's and Twins: great defense behind solid contact guys.

3-4-5 is too many.  5 is fine because #5 pitchers aren't very good, generally.  I'd like an average, perhaps a little below average K/BB and K/9 pitcher at #4.  #3 should be, at least, average.  1-2 should be well above average.  You really need #1 and #1a to be competitive.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Mike Rizzo gets 5 year extension, promotion
« Reply #46 on: October 19, 2010, 08:27:06 pm »
Sharp, I'd also like to point out... other than Cole, what power pitchers did Rizzo draft?

Solis barely breaks 90.

Now, when it comes to the bullpen? I love what Rizzo is doing... everyone throws hard and has the potential to strike you out.

Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: Mike Rizzo gets 5 year extension, promotion
« Reply #47 on: October 19, 2010, 08:28:55 pm »
Sharp, I'd also like to point out... other than Cole, what power pitchers did Rizzo draft?

Solis barely breaks 90.

Now, when it comes to the bullpen? I love what Rizzo is doing... everyone throws hard and has the potential to strike you out.
Strasburg :D

Offline mitlen

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Re: Mike Rizzo gets 5 year extension, promotion
« Reply #48 on: October 19, 2010, 08:31:08 pm »

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Mike Rizzo gets 5 year extension, promotion
« Reply #49 on: October 19, 2010, 08:31:55 pm »
Obviously Strasburg is not part of the discussion.

Rizzo, or any other GM would have been fired had they passed on him.

I'm talking about guys that aren't Trevor Holder.