Author Topic: 10/11 offseason  (Read 252191 times)

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Offline Potomac Cannons

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Re: 10/11 offseason (Better than Bumplestiltskin Left-Eye Lopez's)
« Reply #75 on: October 25, 2010, 12:43:20 pm »
I still expect him to start the year at AAA and be the 1st or 2nd callup when a SP is needed.

Offline Sharp

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Re: 10/11 offseason (Better than Bumplestiltskin Left-Eye Lopez's)
« Reply #76 on: October 25, 2010, 02:03:51 pm »
I still expect him to start the year at AAA and be the 1st or 2nd callup when a SP is needed.
Who would pitch in his stead?  Detwiler?  He hasn't proven any more than Maya has, and he's had much more time to do so.  And this is not coming from a Maya apologist.

Offline Potomac Cannons

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Re: 10/11 offseason (Better than Bumplestiltskin Left-Eye Lopez's)
« Reply #77 on: October 25, 2010, 02:35:19 pm »
Who would pitch in his stead?  Detwiler?  He hasn't proven any more than Maya has, and he's had much more time to do so.  And this is not coming from a Maya apologist.

I'm thinking one FA or trade SP added to Livan/Lannan/Marquis/JZ.  Seems like the best combo of what Rizzo says is the priority and what is already here.  I've thought all along Maya and Detwiler are part of the AAA rotation starting next season along with guys like Milone and Meyers.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: 10/11 offseason (Better than Bumplestiltskin Left-Eye Lopez's)
« Reply #78 on: October 25, 2010, 02:42:32 pm »
Yunesky Maya at DWL today: 5 IP, 3H, 1BB, 8k, 0ER.

:az:

Offline Sharp

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Re: 10/11 offseason (Better than Bumplestiltskin Left-Eye Lopez's)
« Reply #79 on: October 25, 2010, 03:27:55 pm »
It's silly to put much stock in outings like these, unless you really think Maya's going to have 14.4 K/9 in the majors.  I'd love for him to become an effective ML starter, but if he does I think it will be by keeping the walks down and inducing a lot of groundballs... I don't forsee a whole lot of strikeouts in his future.

Offline Potomac Cannons

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Re: 10/11 offseason (Better than Bumplestiltskin Left-Eye Lopez's)
« Reply #80 on: October 25, 2010, 03:41:35 pm »
It's silly to put much stock in outings like these, unless you really think Maya's going to have 14.4 K/9 in the majors.  I'd love for him to become an effective ML starter, but if he does I think it will be by keeping the walks down and inducing a lot of groundballs... I don't forsee a whole lot of strikeouts in his future.

Exactly.  He looks like he could be a good 4th/5th SP, or a solid 3rd SP, for a mere 2m/yr.  Start him at AAA and see if he can force his way into the rotation.

Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: 10/11 offseason (Better than Bumplestiltskin Left-Eye Lopez's)
« Reply #81 on: October 25, 2010, 03:43:52 pm »
Exactly.  He looks like he could be a good 4th/5th SP, or a solid 3rd SP, for a mere 2m/yr.  Start him at AAA and see if he can force his way into the rotation.
Give him a fair shake in spring training and see who shakes out as your 5 best pitchers.

Offline Potomac Cannons

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Re: 10/11 offseason (Better than Bumplestiltskin Left-Eye Lopez's)
« Reply #82 on: October 25, 2010, 03:55:52 pm »
Give him a fair shake in spring training and see who shakes out as your 5 best pitchers.

If the FA/trade guy shows up then really Livan is the only guy that he could beat out.  You know JZ, Lannan and Marquis are all but guaranteed their spots (deservedly so).

Offline Sharp

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Re: 10/11 offseason (Better than Bumplestiltskin Left-Eye Lopez's)
« Reply #83 on: October 25, 2010, 03:57:35 pm »
I wouldn't grieve especially hard if Marquis were bumped out of the rotation, to be honest.  I know we paid him $8 million but look at the size of the contracts many other clubs are being forced to swallow.

Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: 10/11 offseason (Better than Bumplestiltskin Left-Eye Lopez's)
« Reply #84 on: October 25, 2010, 04:01:33 pm »
If the FA/trade guy shows up then really Livan is the only guy that he could beat out.  You know JZ, Lannan and Marquis are all but guaranteed their spots (deservedly so).
I don't think anyone's earned a free ride into the rotation.  Those 3 are likely to be there, but I they're not guaranteed it by any means.

Offline welch

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Re: 10/11 offseason (Better than Bumplestiltskin Left-Eye Lopez's)
« Reply #85 on: October 25, 2010, 09:48:33 pm »
- Zimmermann is a rookie pitcher recovering from serious surgery. He has to strengthen his arm and learn to pitch in the majors. No sure thing.

- Lannan is an adequate pitcher when he's on target. He's pitched enough that we can say he's a "probable"

- Marquis is awful. Maybe he'll be better than I expect...

- the rest of the starters are guys we saw too much in 2010.

If the team fails to sign Dunn, if the team fails to sign an ace starter, then 2011 look like 2010 only worse.

- C: Ramos + Pudge . OK, probably

- 3B: Zimmerman. The spot of quality.

- SS: Desmond. Hits like a 2B, fields like a 2B, but plays SS.

- 2B: Espinosa. Fields like a SS, doesn't hit. Eddie Brinkman with a heavy swing. Put him at SS, and the Nats will have some defense, even with a .225 hitter.

- 1B: <a good-fielding veteran to be named later>

- LF: Willingham. At least half a season a good hitting and decent fielding

- CF: Morgan or Bernadina. Neither should start, but somebody has to take the position.

- RF: Morse plus hope. We hope he continues to hit.

Bench: AGon IF plus Morgan or Bernadina OF. Not much depth, unless they move Morse to 1B, keep Bernadina in RF, and have no reserve at all. It's really bad when Justin Maxwell is the September reinforcement(s).

Youth? If so many players have been in the minors for so long that they are liable to be Rule 5-ers, then the farm system is filled with guys who look a lot like Kory Casto. No, I'm not convinced when someone tells me that a guy in AA hit .270 so "help is on the way".


Offline Potomac Cannons

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Re: 10/11 offseason (Better than Bumplestiltskin Left-Eye Lopez's)
« Reply #86 on: October 26, 2010, 12:28:23 am »
- Zimmermann is a rookie pitcher recovering from serious surgery. He has to strengthen his arm and learn to pitch in the majors. No sure thing.

- Lannan is an adequate pitcher when he's on target. He's pitched enough that we can say he's a "probable"

- Marquis is awful. Maybe he'll be better than I expect...

- the rest of the starters are guys we saw too much in 2010.

If the team fails to sign Dunn, if the team fails to sign an ace starter, then 2011 look like 2010 only worse.

- C: Ramos + Pudge . OK, probably

- 3B: Zimmerman. The spot of quality.

- SS: Desmond. Hits like a 2B, fields like a 2B, but plays SS.

- 2B: Espinosa. Fields like a SS, doesn't hit. Eddie Brinkman with a heavy swing. Put him at SS, and the Nats will have some defense, even with a .225 hitter.

- 1B: <a good-fielding veteran to be named later>

- LF: Willingham. At least half a season a good hitting and decent fielding

- CF: Morgan or Bernadina. Neither should start, but somebody has to take the position.

- RF: Morse plus hope. We hope he continues to hit.

Bench: AGon IF plus Morgan or Bernadina OF. Not much depth, unless they move Morse to 1B, keep Bernadina in RF, and have no reserve at all. It's really bad when Justin Maxwell is the September reinforcement(s).

Youth? If so many players have been in the minors for so long that they are liable to be Rule 5-ers, then the farm system is filled with guys who look a lot like Kory Casto. No, I'm not convinced when someone tells me that a guy in AA hit .270 so "help is on the way".



Zimmermann is a #1 SP who is returning from TJ surgery which nearly everyone recovers from with no side effects these days.  He's on exactly the pace he should be and should be counted on to be dominant by the middle of 2011. 

Lannan was excellent upon return.  I say that as someone highly skeptical of him but he earned his spot for next year unless something goes horribly wrong in the spring.

Marquis was the best pitcher on the team in September.  Health was the only problem.  He's been good for quite a while now and there's no reason to expect him not to remain that way next year.

The rest of the starters are likely Livan who pitched way better than we had reason to expect, Maya who pitched after more than a year layoff, and Detwiler who is still young and battled injuries.  If Rizzo gets the front of the rotation SP he's targeted as the #1 priority that means only 1 of them gets a spot.  That's a big upgrade over what we ran out there for most of 2010 since guys like Martin, Stammen, and Atilano aren't even in the mix (and I think Martin and Stammen could fill out the back of a rotation if healthy and left alone).

C is a big upgrade with Ramos taking all of Nieves time and some of Pudge's time. 

3B is the best in the majors.

SS is Desmond's to lose.  If he just cuts out the errors on easy plays he's a big value going forward.  His range is clearly SS worthy.  If he doesn't cut out the errors then I think he gets dealt with Espinosa moving to SS and Lombardozzi pushing into 2B at the end of the season.

Espinosa doesn't hit?  He's hit at every level despite not getting as much time at AAA as he should have.  He struggled a bit and still put up a .723 OPS (24th among 2B who had as many PAs as he did).  His OBP was about .070 below his AA and AAA level but his SLG was right in line with the minors.  There's no reason not to expect a decent uptick in OBP to drive that up higher and he's got pop from both sides of the plate.  He's just 23 and just a .035 bump in OBP, half of what he lost from AA/AAA, puts him in the top 15 offensively at 2B.

1B is interesting.  Dunn is obviously the best option.  Morse plus a LH veteran is a good option as long as a top OF is brought in via FA or trade.

You nailed LF.  I just hope he's healthy enough to trade for high value in July before he inevitably gets hurt.

I'm interested in seeing if Roger can put a full year together.  His July was excellent.  August was good.  May and June were mediocre and September was abysmal.  If he could consistently play somewhere in the .750+ OPS range with his defense in CF he'd be a solid starter.

Morse earned the shot in RF unless we go for Werth there and move him to 1st.  I don't see why he wouldn't be able to be an adequate defender and his bat should continue to be good with enough opportunity.

The bench is okay with one excellent IF in AlGo.  I'm really hoping we grab a CF like Crisp or DeJesus and Roger ends up the 4th OF as that would be a good role for him.  JMax is a great 5th OF with his defense and baserunning.  Whichever C is on the bench is better than Nieves so that's an upgrade.  One more quality IF backup and that bench would look good (I would love to land someone like Bill Hall).

It's just crazy to question the youth in the system now.  This isn't Jim Bowden tooting his own horn.  These are guys being recognized as legitimate prospects and guys who are performing very well at every level.  If you think .270 at AA is what anyone here is talking about then you're completely clueless about what is finally in the system.  Two legitimate SP prospects should start at AAA next year (Milone and Meyers), 2B has out best candidate for a leadoff hitter in house with Lombardozzi who gets on at a .370+ OBP rate at every level so far, and C has Norris whose defense improved greatly this year, whose bat is exceptional for his position, and who is one of the best overall prospects in the game (not just our system).  Those are 4 legitimate prospects who should be contributors, not just roster fillers, at the MLB level.  I'm not sure if 4 guys of that quality have been this far advanced in the system since the team moved here.  Guys like Casto and Maxwell never showed the kind of positional value in the high minors that these guys have and have never been considered amongst the best prospects in the game.

Offline The Hammer

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Re: 10/11 offseason (Better than Bumplestiltskin Left-Eye Lopez's)
« Reply #87 on: October 26, 2010, 12:46:46 am »
Marquis was the best pitcher on the team in September.  Health was the only problem.  He's been good for quite a while now and there's no reason to expect him not to remain that way next year.

In what world was Marquis a good pitcher for a while? What is your definition of good? Being mediocre, being average, being above average, or being a lot better than average? If your definition is being average, then Marquis is not that. Do you want to know how many times Marquis has been at a 2 WAR (average) or better in his career? 1 time. In his best 3 year span he has a 4.37 ERA and 1.40 WHIP. In that span his FIP 4.10, 4.61, and 4.99 while his xFIP was at 4.41, 4.91, 4.98. ranged He has a 4.92 ERA and 1.45 WHIP in his last 5 seasons. In what world is that a good pitcher?

Offline The Hammer

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Re: 10/11 offseason (Better than Bumplestiltskin Left-Eye Lopez's)
« Reply #88 on: October 26, 2010, 12:48:09 am »
The team is better off realizing that the SP is a problem. Sign 2 FA pitchers or trade for them. A lot of IF's in the team's rotation next year: If Zimmermann regains form and fulfills his potential, if Livan doesn't regress, If Lannan is back, If Marquis season was a fluke.

Offline Vega

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Re: 10/11 offseason (Better than Bumplestiltskin Left-Eye Lopez's)
« Reply #89 on: October 26, 2010, 12:50:36 am »
Marquis won't make it through the season, one way or another. If he sucks, he'll get cut; if he's good, he'll be dealt at the deadline.

Offline bglide

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Re: 10/11 offseason (Better than Bumplestiltskin Left-Eye Lopez's)
« Reply #90 on: October 26, 2010, 04:22:30 am »
I tell you who is underrated is JD Martin.  He is by far our best starter of the group of Atliano, Stammen, Olsen, Maya, Marquis, and Detweiler.  Dude is a good pitcher.  Hopefully he is healthy next season. 

Offline Sharp

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Re: 10/11 offseason (Better than Bumplestiltskin Left-Eye Lopez's)
« Reply #91 on: October 26, 2010, 04:50:41 am »
JD Martin may be better in some universe but he hasn't shown it, and it's not just because he hasn't been given the opportunity.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: 10/11 offseason (Better than Bumplestiltskin Left-Eye Lopez's)
« Reply #92 on: October 26, 2010, 05:31:56 am »
JD Martin may be better in some universe but he hasn't shown it, and it's not just because he hasn't been given the opportunity.

Better FIP in 2010 than Atilano, Detwiler, Maya, Marquis, Mock and Zimmermann .

Not that, that's saying much.

Offline Sharp

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Re: 10/11 offseason (Better than Bumplestiltskin Left-Eye Lopez's)
« Reply #93 on: October 26, 2010, 05:55:06 am »
FIP of 4.97?  freaking excellent.  Also from what I recall Mock made exactly one start in 2010 and it was so disastrous that he was sent to the minors never to be heard from again.  I mean he had a 13.58 FIP and an 8.24 xFIP based on that start.  That is holy crap bad.

(BTW, in terms of xFIP Zimmermann jumps ahead of Martin; he's been suffering from a fortunately unsustainable 22% HR/FB rate.  I still hope his K/9 rate improves next year from what it was in an admittedly small sample size this year, because otherwise he's not going to be much of an ace [or even number two starter]).

Offline NatsDad14

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Re: 10/11 offseason (Better than Bumplestiltskin Left-Eye Lopez's)
« Reply #94 on: October 26, 2010, 08:45:22 am »
Look at Martin's ERA in his last ~20 starts. It's solid and under 4.

Offline Upark25

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Re: 10/11 offseason (Better than Bumplestiltskin Left-Eye Lopez's)
« Reply #95 on: October 26, 2010, 08:50:06 am »
Wow you know the Nats have a bad rotation when people are praising "J.D Martin".

Offline imref

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Re: 10/11 offseason (Better than Bumplestiltskin Left-Eye Lopez's)
« Reply #96 on: October 26, 2010, 10:22:16 am »
Marquis won't make it through the season, one way or another. If he sucks, he'll get cut; if he's good, he'll be dealt at the deadline.

You are probably right, best we can hope for is around a 4.00 ERA at the ASB, followed by trading him for a couple of prospects before the deadline.

Offline imref

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Re: 10/11 offseason (Better than Bumplestiltskin Left-Eye Lopez's)
« Reply #97 on: October 26, 2010, 10:23:02 am »
Wow you know the Nats have a bad rotation when people are praising "J.D Martin".

 >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

Offline Sharp

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Re: 10/11 offseason (Better than Bumplestiltskin Left-Eye Lopez's)
« Reply #98 on: October 26, 2010, 10:27:52 am »
Look at Martin's ERA in his last ~20 starts. It's solid and under 4.
ERA takes forever to stabilize and even if it didn't those 20 starts have been spread out over two years.

Edit: Martin's last twenty-two starts are covered by August of '09, September/October of '09, May of '10, June '10, and July '10.  His FIP/xFIP in each of those time frames: 7.06/6.12, 4.99/5.44, 3.58/3.91 (in one start), 4.23/4.46, 7.20/5.15.  If you see a (not crappy) pattern forming here feel free to let me know.

Offline NatsDad14

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Re: 10/11 offseason (Better than Bumplestiltskin Left-Eye Lopez's)
« Reply #99 on: October 26, 2010, 12:25:30 pm »
ERA takes forever to stabilize and even if it didn't those 20 starts have been spread out over two years.

Edit: Martin's last twenty-two starts are covered by August of '09, September/October of '09, May of '10, June '10, and July '10.  His FIP/xFIP in each of those time frames: 7.06/6.12, 4.99/5.44, 3.58/3.91 (in one start), 4.23/4.46, 7.20/5.15.  If you see a (not crappy) pattern forming here feel free to let me know.
FIP might not be the best stat for a guy like Martin. He isn't a groundballer, but his HR tendencies kill his FIP.