Spring Training Thread

[balzig777]

whats funny is sp has'nt even started and per a couple quotes the starting line up has been set...jump the gun much?

[sportsfan882]

Really good article by Chico on Flores' struggle with injuries.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/nationalsjournal/2010/02/the_battered_bruised_and_repai.html

I just filed a story on Jesus Flores, a catcher with an irrepressible good nature and, right now, a very worrisome shoulder. He also had lots to say, and plenty I wanted to print. Only problem: The story was given an 800-word allotment, and yet the story, the real story -- something messy and imperfect and poignant and open-ended -- required much more. So here goes...

Here are some of the things that I didn't come even close to writing about, but should have: How Flores, determined to come back from his September 2009 labrum surgery, elected against an offseason return trip to his home in Venezuela, because there he wouldn't have access to cutting-edge rehab facilities. And how Flores found an apartment in Miami, even though he knew nobody, and woke up every morning lonely but determined. How Flores paid for his own physical therapist, and eventually enlisted a group of Latin ballplayers (Alex Cora, Placido Polanco, etc.) as workout partners. How Flores took a taxi everywhere, at least until December, because his arm was still in a sling and so he couldn't get both hands on the wheel of a car. How Flores grew to like Miami so much, despite the "crazy" driving, that he now wants to buy a home there.

"Last year, after the season, whew, I was sad," Flores said, looking back. "Just me, I don't have family, I don't have nobody in Miami. Only, get out of bed in the morning, go to the rehab, do my exercise and my stuff, come back home, just reading and TV and PlayStation 3. Internet. It was lonely. But I was like, 'OK, this is only for you. This is your future, your work. You know, your job. You had to concentrate on what's best for you."

That's the Flores I know, and I gotta say, he's the kind of guy I'll continue to pull for even after I'm off this beat.

But right now, Flores is in a tough spot, and he has plenty to say about it. Almost too much to say. He's bitter about the injuries of the last year, and thinks (right or wrong) that they could have been prevented. Sometimes it sounds like he's blaming team doctors. Sometimes it sounds like he's blaming himself for continuing to throw when he sensed a bigger problem. Sometimes it sounds like he doesn't think anybody deserves blame, but just wants to let off some steam.

Anyway, before we get to the full body of Flores's words, let's get everybody up to speed on the progress of Washington's possible catcher of the future.

On Monday morning, the second day of workouts for the Nats' pitchers and catchers, Flores joined four other catchers in a bullpen practice area, where the mounds and plates run side-by-side. Five pitchers kicked the dirt and started working, and that's how it began -- a harmony of baseballs zipping back and forth, brisk but easy.

Except for one thing: Flores looked nothing like the other catchers. A middle-aged bullpen catcher, Julian Martinez, stood to Flores's right, as if looking to hold his hand. Flores gloved every pitch from right-hander Shairon Martis, his first partner in the bullpen, but he didn't throw a single ball back. Instead, he underhanded the ball to Martinez, who relayed it back to Martis. One member of Washington's front office called the scene "sad." Flores, for his part, said he's starting his career "from zero."

And the Nationals don't know what to think. They know Flores can throw 45 or 50 feet, and they hope he can throw 60 by the end of the week, but they don't dare say he'll be ready by Opening Day. In fact, they don't mention a timetable of any kind.

"We'll be very cautious," General Manager Mike Rizzo said.

My guess is, Flores will start the year on the DL. I'd put heavy money on that. The Nats view Flores as a slow healer, and they can't predict whether the months of injuries have eroded his ability. This offseason, they signed free agent Ivan Rodriguez and avoided arbitration with backup Wil Nieves. The Nationals want Flores, but no longer depend on him.

"With Mike going out and getting Pudge, it allows us to really take our time and let him get right," Jim Riggleman said. "He's had a lot of trauma to that arm in the last 10 months. Numerous rehab days. Just starting over two or three different times. So we really want to let him get right, no questions about it. Let him get 100 percent."

As I mentioned earlier, Flores keeps thinking, with some regret and bitterness, about all the reasons he's not 100 percent. The last day he felt healthy? That was May 9, a night when the Nationals played in Arizona. In the seventh inning, a Chris Young foul tip struck him in the right shoulder. Because of adrenaline, Flores didn't immediately feel much pain. He only exited the game in the middle of the ninth. X-rays taken later that night were negative. Washington thought he'd miss a game or two.

From there, the prognosis for Flores worsened. In late May, Flores resumed throwing. He attempted a rehab trip the minor leagues. He batted 11 times. His shoulder pain worsened, and his next examination revealed setback No. 1: A stress fracture. Rizzo called the news "devastating." Flores missed another four months. Only in early September did Washington bring Flores back for a last gasp of action, adding him directly to the big league roster on Sept. 4, strictly as a pinch-hitter. He batted three times. He complained of more shoulder pain. His next examination revealed setback No. 2: A torn labrum. Orthopedist James Andrews conducted SLAP (Superior Labrum from Anterior to Posterior) repair surgery on Sept. 16. And Flores was devastated.

Asked if he thinks the labrum injury was preventable, Flores said, "Oh yeah yeah yeah. If I would have stopped throwing."

Flores called the series of injuries "stupid."

Why?

"You're the doctor," he said. "You tell me one thing, and it was labrum... I was getting worse every day; I wasn't getting better. And I was telling them, 'Hey, I'm not feeling good. Something is in there, something is in there.' And they kept saying, 'Don't worry; don't worry, you're gonna be fine. It's tendinitis, it's tendinitis.' Then they send me to Dr. Andrews. He wanted to see the MRIs, X-rays, everything, instead of just moving your arm around."

"Well wait," I interrupted. "You had the foul tip in Arizona. Injury No. 1."

"Yes," Flores said. "And I kept throwing. Because we didn't have another catcher, remember. Just Wil Nieves and me. So I had to keep throwing because if something happened to him I had to play. We were in San Francisco for four more days, and then when we came back to Washington I saw a doctor."

"So you didn't see a doctor until four or five days after the foul tip?" I asked.

"Well, I saw a doctor in Arizona but they didn't figure out anything. There was no diagnose -- how you say it? -- diagnosis?"

"So then did you see [team doctor] Wiemi Douoguih when you came back to DC?" I asked.

"Yeah. I had a bone contusion. What's the word, when you got hit by something? A bruise, yeah... But I was throwing, like, different. And I told them, 'Hey, I want to play.' So sure. I was doing all the exercises, everything. So okay, they send me to Class AA. So when I was in Class AA, it was different; I was in the game and, you know, the intensity is different from when I was just doing throwing practice. But I asked the doctor, 'Hey, can I play?' 'Yeah, yeah.' He said the pain would go away; it would take a while but it will go away. But he should have told me, 'No, let's wait. Let's wait. You're not feeling right yet.' Take another month off. But no. And that's when I got the fracture. Then four months to recover from that. Then when I started doing that throwing program, then I got the labrum."

Whew. There's a lot there to digest. It's clear Flores blames himself as well as the team. He also says he's learned a lesson now, because this time around he wants to be slow and deliberate with his recovery. In fact, he's not putting a date on when he might return.

"My guess? I mean, it depends," Flores said. "Right now I don't want to rush. I want to go step-by-step. I'm feeling good, but I don't want to take any steps back. I'm not saying nothing right now. I could say April, but I don't know. It depends. Because another thing is, I'm not a second baseman, I'm not a shortstop; I'm a catcher. I need to throw. A lot of stuff that I have to get used to again. I'm not used to blocking the balls, catching the balls, throwing to the bases."

Second-guessing the treatment of injuries always leaves me a bit uneasy, because it's easy to buy into players' gripes after the fact. Memory is selective, and sometimes players hurt themselves by not saying enough about their pain. Before writing any of this, I approached a member of Washington's PR staff and requested to speak with Dr. Douoguih, simply to get a more accurate record of events. Instead, the team authorized Rizzo to speak on behalf of the team's medical treatment staff. Rizzo said he understood Flores's frustration, but emphasized that the team never put him under undo risk. "We've handled Jesus's case with extreme caution," he said. "He's one of our best and brightest prospects, so we went to great pains to do our due diligence to tackle the problems that he had. It was just an escalation of problems, one after the other. But we were certainly following the correct protocol."

[sportsfan882]

whats funny is sp has'nt even started and per a couple quotes the starting line up has been set...jump the gun much?

I agree with this. Only Lannan and Marquis have jobs. The rest have to earn it.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

That bit about Flores not getting treatment in a timely manner is just freaking great.  Epitomizes why I have zero confidence in this dumbass team this year.

[Spinman]

I agree with this. Only Lannan and Marquis have jobs. The rest have to earn it.

Trust me there are plenty of guys still in the hunt for #3-5 spots in the rotation.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

It's been established that Matt Capps's struggles last year were due to injuries.  While that may be true, I found an interesting item of note that I've yet to see here (although JCA may have brought it up).

Matthew Carruth wrote a piece listing the top gainers in fastball velocity in 2009.  Matt Capps was in the top 5 in baseball (T-3rd with Ryan Madson with +2.1 MpH).

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/fastball-gains/

That's curious to me.  You'd expect just the opposite from a guy who battled injuries, but there are some logical explanations for it.

[PANatsFan]

whats funny is sp has'nt even started and per a couple quotes the starting line up has been set...jump the gun much?

Yeah, I assume you mean pitchers because I don't think there's anything to settle out in the field.

[sportsfan882]

JD Martin

http://www.twitvid.com/61E89

[balzig777]

what pitchers did rizzo have some input as to their being on the team?

[Lintyfresh85]

JD Martin

http://www.twitvid.com/61E89

JD Martin is now out having Tommy John surgery because of this shot.*


* - Mindfact

[houston-nat]

JD Martin

http://www.twitvid.com/61E89

That is sick. And makes Bally look like a wimp.*

*Yes, I said it

[Kevrock]

JD Martin is now out having Tommy John surgery because of this shot.*


* - Mindfact

Not for a few months.

Nice shot, btw.

[tomterp]

what pitchers did rizzo have some input as to their being on the team?

He caused the Nats to trade for Matt Chico and Garrett Mock, whom he knew from when he was in Arizona. 

[CJames0569]

That bit about Flores not getting treatment in a timely manner is just freaking great.  Epitomizes why I have zero confidence in this dumbass team this year.

This article really botherd me, especially about the part of not seeing a doctor for 4-5 days and having him play through pain. I know it's been brought up before but I wonder how our medical staff etc compares to other teams. I understand injuries happen and Flores seems accident prone, but would we have asked someone else to play through these injuries.

[Obed_Marsh]

This article really botherd me, especially about the part of not seeing a doctor for 4-5 days and having him play through pain.

Read more carefully. He says they did not have a diagnosis for 4-5 days not that he didn't see a doctor. If there was a lot of swelling or he was describing his pain with the same degree of accuracy he is in this interview it is not surprising it took 4-5 days to get the root of it. Besides, a lot of this kind of junk requires a specialist.

[houston-nat]

Nyjer Morgan told Bill Ladson he is planning to grow an Afro.

All I can say is: YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[Obed_Marsh]

Nyjer working on a feet first slide.

http://masnsports.com/2010/02/morgan-getting-bugs-out-of-his.html

Morgan is planning to wear a bowling mitt on his wrist to protect it on occasions where he has to slide headfirst. In the instances where he does it, you'll probably be able to see that little spark of defiance in his reaction -- "I might give a little pat on the chest (to the dugout). You guys might catch that," he said.

But by and large, the center fielder who does most things with a little extra swagger will have to dial it back for safety's sake.

"That's what I'm going to be working on this month," he said. "I've got this whole month to do all that, get all those little bugs out. I don't care if I get caught (stealing) 10, 15 times. I've got to get this down where it's going to become natural."

[The Chief]

Nyjer working on a feet first slide.

http://masnsports.com/2010/02/morgan-getting-bugs-out-of-his.html
 

If he means "in spring training" then I'd agree with him.  Let him work on his stealing technique every single time he gets on base.

[Obed_Marsh]

I hope so too. I'd hate to see him get awkward during the regular season because he was pressured into sliding feet first.

[tomterp]

Spring training battles for the 5th spot in the rotation - Do they (the battles) really mean anything?  An excerpt from an article just posted on BP:

Overrating Fifth Starters
by Tommy Bennett

This week, position players join pitchers and catchers at spring training. For those who travel to Florida or Arizona to cover the teams, reporting on the same story lines can grow tiresome. For others, enjoying watching the same story lines pop up again and again is half the fun.

One traditional source of March copy has been position battles. Teams, wisely or not, sometimes view spring training as a sort of tryout, and so beat writers can craft a narrative around Player A vs. Player B, while maintaining that both players simply want what's best for the team. Later in the spring, players will battle for the last roster spots—which is a battle with serious implications for the players and their careers. But this early in spring training, the dominant story lines are about rotation spots, particularly the fifth starter's job. Aside from their dramatic value, do such battles have any significance?........

A more basic question we could ask about all of these battles is whether the ostensible winner will end up pitching more than the loser. Put slightly differently, what difference is there between the pitcher who pitches the fifth-most starts on a team and the pitcher who pitches the sixth-most starts? After all, most teams don't even need a fifth starter until a few weeks into the season, and use every opportunity they get to skip the weakest link. On the other hand, pitcher injuries are all too frequent. Combined with trades, injuries mean that there is a good bit of rotation in the, er, staff. Of course, you want numbers, and who am I to get off on being withholding?

I ranked each team's pitchers by games started in 2009. I then took the fifth- and sixth-ranked pitchers on this score and subtracted the number of starts for the sixth man from the number of starts for the fifth man. No team's sixth starter started fewer than six games (Brad Penny and Ryan Sadowski for the Giants both did). No team's fifth starter started more than 26 games (Rich Harden of the Cubs). On average, fifth starters took the ball just over 16 times, while sixth starters averaged just less than 12 starts. That's a very small margin given the importance attached to spring battles.  Here's the fullNats list:

G. Mock    15  
S. Martis  15
J. Martin   15

(my edit in red)

Thoughts?

[KnorrForYourMoney]

I think that guy's a fool.  Does he realize that someone who wins the position of "fifth starter" in ST isn't always the "fifth starter" by the end of the year?

[tomterp]

I think that guy's a fool.  Does he realize that someone who wins the position of "fifth starter" in ST isn't always the "fifth starter" by the end of the year?

Isn't that the whole point of his article?

A more basic question we could ask about all of these battles is whether the ostensible winner will end up pitching more than the loser. Put slightly differently, what difference is there between the pitcher who pitches the fifth-most starts on a team and the pitcher who pitches the sixth-most starts? After all, most teams don't even need a fifth starter until a few weeks into the season, and use every opportunity they get to skip the weakest link. On the other hand, pitcher injuries are all too frequent. Combined with trades, injuries mean that there is a good bit of rotation in the, er, staff.

[blue911]

Harden started the Cubs 4^th game, How does that make him the 5^th starter out of camp?

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Isn't that the whole point of his article?

Um, no.  He's comparing the fifth starter in terms of starts and the sixth starter in terms of starts, yet claiming it proves something about the pitcher who is penciled in for the fifth spot in the rotation out of camp (going into the regular season).  Case in point, he compares Mock, Martis, and Martin, when the better question would've been Zimmermann vs. Mock.  Granted, Zimmermann didn't have many starts, but he most assuredly would have finished out the season if it weren't for the TJ surgery.

[tomterp]

Harden started the Cubs 4^th game, How does that make him the 5^th starter out of camp?

I ranked each team's pitchers by games started in 2009.