The Garage

[HalfSmokes]

So, good bye Totota reputation
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gd7Qz2RjEfPjm2JYLVp-I38NzbZgD9F271SO1

Consumer Reports calls Lexus GX 460 unsafe
By DAN STRUMPF (AP) – 10 minutes ago

NEW YORK — Consumer Reports has given the Lexus GX 460 SUV a rare "Don't Buy" warning, saying a problem that occurred during routine handling tests could lead to a rollover accident in real-world driving.

In the latest blow to Toyota's reputation, the magazine said that during a test of the vehicle's performance during unusual turns, the rear of the vehicle slid until it was nearly sideways before the electronic stability control system kicked in.

Consumer Reports said in real-world driving, such a scenario could cause a rollover accident. As a result, the magazine has given the seven-seat SUV a "Don't Buy: Safety Risk" label until the problem is fixed.

"In a real world situation, by that time, the car can hit the curb or the side of the road and that's the situation where, in a vehicle like that, it could cause it to roll over," said Gabriel Shenhar, senior auto test engineer at Consumer Reports, who was one of four testers to experience the problem.

Consumer Reports said the last vehicle to receive such a warning was the 2001 Mitsubishi Montero Limited. It said among the 95 SUVs in its current ratings, no other slid as far as the GX 460.

In a statement Toyota said it is concerned with Consumer Reports' findings, adding that its engineers will try to duplicate the magazine's tests to determine its next steps.

"Please keep in mind that the 2010 GX 460 meets or exceeds all federal government testing requirements," the automaker said. "We take the Consumer Reports' test results seriously."

Starting at about $52,000, the GX 460 is a small-volume vehicle for Lexus, Toyota Motor Corp.'s luxury brand. It went on sale in November and only about 5,000 have been sold since then. But the warning represents yet another blow for Toyota's tarnished reputation for safety following recalls of millions of vehicles for faulty gas pedals. The GX 460 is not covered by the pedal recalls.

Consumer Reports said the problem occurred during a handling test on its test track. During the test, the driver approaches a turn unusually fast, then releases the accelerator pedal to simulate a typical driver's response. This causes the rear of the vehicle to slide.

In normal cases, the vehicle's electronic stability control should quickly correct the loss of control. But Shenhar said in the case of the GX 460, the stability control took too long to adjust, causing a risk of rolling over.

However, Consumer Reports said it is not aware of any reports of the vehicle rolling over. The magazine said it tested two separate vehicles, both of which experienced the problem, but neither rolled over.

[PANatsFan]

Long story short, I'm in a different car. So, I'll keep tabs on the MPG and pray.

[imref]

you need one of these:

[tomterp]

Aspenbubba is a modest guy and hasn't tooted his own horn  here but I will - he's got an incredible classic car.  Rare as all get out, terrific styling, powerful engine, the type of collectible that increases in value over time.  Looks great, sounds great, runs great, nothing not to like.  Just wow.

[Nathan]

Well, WTF is it

[Frau Mau]

Just upgraded from a '97 Rav4 to an '06 of the same model...being a Toyota, it's probably as dangerous as driving a wheeled IED, but damn is it a nice quiet ride.   

[PANatsFan]

Long story short, I'm in a different car. So, I'll keep tabs on the MPG and pray.

19.5 first tank

Well on the way to over 20 on the 2nd

Probably cost the same as that used RAV4

[tomterp]

Well, WTF is it

That's not as easy a question as it is for most cars.  I will say it is Ford-ish.

[CALSGR8]

Ah, then its a Rambler!      

[PANatsFan]

Can someone please explain to me how my 2.3L I4 Mazda5 gets 27 mpg highway, and the V6 Ford Mustang gets 31?

[HalfSmokes]

Can someone please explain to me how my 2.3L I4 Mazda5 gets 27 mpg highway, and the V6 Ford Mustang gets 31?

engineering a car specifically for known laboratory criteria?

[blue911]

engineering a car specifically for known laboratory criteria?

Like the crash test standards?

[The Chief]

Can someone please explain to me how my 2.3L I4 Mazda5 gets 27 mpg highway, and the V6 Ford Mustang gets 31?

I actually came across a very interesting article on this not too long ago.  I'll dig it up if you're interested.

[tomterp]

I actually came across a very interesting article on this not too long ago.  I'll dig it up if you're interested.

Time out here, we need some clarification.

PANatsFan said his Mazda gets 27, and his Mustang 31 highway.  He didn't say anything about EPA estimated mileage standards for those cars.   So PA, do your cars get the mileage you reported, or are you merely quoting EPA standards without empirical evidence of your own?

[HalfSmokes]

with the right criteria, a BMW can get better gas mileage than a Prius

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/used_car_reviews/article3552994.ece

Vital Statistics

Model BMW 520d SE
Engine 1995cc, four cylinders
Power 177bhp @ 4000rpm
Torque 258 lb ft @ 1750rpm
Transmission Six-speed manual
Official fuel/CO2 55.4mpg / 136g/km
Performance 0-62mph: 8.3sec
Top speed 144mph
Road tax band C (£115)
Price £27,190
Fuel used on test 10.84 gallons (50.3mpg)
Fuel cost £54.19 (diesel)

Model Toyota Prius T Spirit
Engine 1497cc, four cylinders
Electric motor 50kW/67bhp
Power 77bhp @ 5000rpm
Torque 295 lb ft (motor) 85 lb ft (engine)
Transmission CVT automatic
Official fuel/CO2 65.7mpg / 104g/km
Performance 0-62mph: 10.9sec
Top speed 106mph
Road tax band B (£15, alternative fuel)
Price £20,677
Fuel used on test 11.34 gallons (48.1mpg)
Fuel cost £54.64 (petrol)

[PANatsFan]

Time out here, we need some clarification.

PANatsFan said his Mazda gets 27, and his Mustang 31 highway.  He didn't say anything about EPA estimated mileage standards for those cars.   So PA, do your cars get the mileage you reported, or are you merely quoting EPA standards without empirical evidence of your own?

Those are the averages, the EPA standards.

My first tank, my 5 got a little under 19 per gallon, but that was definitely mostly "city" driving, the standard is 21 city, and it's brand spanking new.

I'm getting over 20 at this point, and this time it will be "highway"-like. I understand the standards, but I also understand that your car needs to perform legally within spec now - minimum for my 5 is 17mpg.

I assume they are road tests and not lab tests, but I also assume they have pro drivers who know just how to drive the car and maximize the performance. However, I also assume that all manufacturers use the same tricks to try and get the best score possible, so they should have equal advantages.


The new Chevy Malibu gets 31mpg, but I'm willing to assume the 5 is possible heavier and less efficient than a sedan. The Mustang intrigues me. Probable a google search of "mustang gas mileage" or a quick check at Edmunds will answer my questions. The combined rating of my 5 is 23mpg, best in class for all "minivans" is 24mpg, but I'm very skeptical that a full-sized minivan could beat the little 5.

[PANatsFan]

with the right criteria, a BMW can get better gas mileage than a Prius

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/used_car_reviews/article3552994.ece

yeah, diesel criteria. Not fair.

[HalfSmokes]

yeah, diesel criteria. Not fair.

still BMW 5 series (and the comfort/power that goes with it) vs. prius. I'm willing to bet that you could take a normal 5 series and make a road test with high enough average speeds to beat a prius.

[PANatsFan]

still BMW 5 series (and the comfort/power that goes with it) vs. prius. I'm willing to bet that you could take a normal 5 series and make a road test with high enough average speeds to beat a prius.

I wouldn't buy a Prius for any reason at this point. I hate the stupid slanty hatch (same goes for the Honda Accord Crosstour), I hate the corporate culture at Toyota, and I'm still irrationally sure they are deathtraps.

The 144mph didn't even jump out at me because the diesel did. I wish could have gotten a European Mazda5 with the 6 cylinder diesel. That's a hell of a baby car.

[HalfSmokes]

Every time I think of a prius, I think of south park

[tomterp]

The Prius would draw a lot of votes for Ugliest Car, if not for the SmartCar dominating the voting.

[Nathan]

PA:  I think a lot has to do with gearing.  A torquey V6 can be geared so that at highway speed it's barely above idle, whereas with my 5 speed 3, I'll be turning over 2500 at that speed.

Do you have the trip computer thing that gives you life time MPG, current MPG, avg MPH, and miles to empty?

[tomterp]

Do you have the trip computer thing that gives you life time MPG, current MPG, avg MPH, and miles to empty?

I don't trust those things at all, based on the inaccuracy of my BMW's.  It consistently reads 2 MPG higher than what I really get, based on tracking the trip mileage and actual gas consumption.  It usually is around 29.5, but I'm getting 27.5 typically.

[PANatsFan]

Do you have the trip computer thing that gives you life time MPG, current MPG, avg MPH, and miles to empty?

Nah I have the base model with spoiler, cd changer, and sill extensions. Gonna get some pimp accessories, but I'll wait a bit since I bought a netbook today. I use the tripometer and do the division.

[Nathan]

I don't trust those things at all, based on the inaccuracy of my BMW's.  It consistently reads 2 MPG higher than what I really get, based on tracking the trip mileage and actual gas consumption.  It usually is around 29.5, but I'm getting 27.5 typically.

True, but I do find it useful as a relative measure.  If it tells me I'm getting 25 and I slow down a bit, and it says 30, the figures may be off, but it does mean that I am getting better mileage.

Mine's actually pretty good.  Lifetime it says 21.something, which is what I usually expect, given my high frequency of 2-3 mile city trips.

And if he didn't, I was going to see if he wanted to do some "hacking" to enable it, like I did to get it on my 3