Author Topic: O-Dog (Orlando Hudson)  (Read 32349 times)

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Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: O-Dog (Orlando Hudson)
« Reply #150 on: January 13, 2010, 02:16:07 pm »
No it must have been Tropicana. That's the 2008 schedule, Halfsmokes.
oops

Offline tomterp

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Re: O-Dog (Orlando Hudson)
« Reply #151 on: January 13, 2010, 02:20:08 pm »
RZ hit .259 with 7 Doubles, 1 Triple, 6 HRs, 16 RBIs, and 16 Runs in 108 ABs in Sept/Oct.

Facts in your mind, right?

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: O-Dog (Orlando Hudson)
« Reply #152 on: January 13, 2010, 02:20:22 pm »
^ Those Sep-Oct splits don't actually include his stats from October for some reason. :lol:  He had 7 hits, 4 doubles, and 2 RBI in October (4 games).

Heh. MLB.com should probably fix that then!

Offline I can Throw

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Re: O-Dog (Orlando Hudson)
« Reply #153 on: January 13, 2010, 02:20:30 pm »
So, any other 2b's out there besides..

O Hudson (wants $8 million - won't get it, probably $3-4 million base + incentives)
Adam Kennedy -
Mike Fontenot - cheap option, Big Lou has lost confidence in him. Probably .260+, 10-12 HRs, pretty good glove
Dan "the ugly man" Uggla - bit swing, lots of misses with bat and glove
Jed Lowrie - probably too expensive in a trade, but he would be my favorite choice to acquire.


Offline JMW IV

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Re: O-Dog (Orlando Hudson)
« Reply #154 on: January 13, 2010, 02:21:04 pm »
we had one the best offenses statistically for at least half the season, but we still lost 100 games.

yeah, pitching and defense dont freaking matter. who cares? :roll:

Offline ronnynat

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Re: O-Dog (Orlando Hudson)
« Reply #155 on: January 13, 2010, 02:24:19 pm »
So, any other 2b's out there besides..

O Hudson (wants $8 million - won't get it, probably $3-4 million base + incentives)
Adam Kennedy -
Mike Fontenot - cheap option, Big Lou has lost confidence in him. Probably .260+, 10-12 HRs, pretty good glove
Dan "the ugly man" Uggla - bit swing, lots of misses with bat and glove
Jed Lowrie - probably too expensive in a trade, but he would be my favorite choice to acquire.

Brandon Phillips would be nice.

Offline JMW IV

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Re: O-Dog (Orlando Hudson)
« Reply #156 on: January 13, 2010, 02:25:48 pm »
yeah but good luck getting him.

Offline ronnynat

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Re: O-Dog (Orlando Hudson)
« Reply #157 on: January 13, 2010, 02:30:21 pm »
yeah but good luck getting him.

His contract jumps from $6.75 mil this season to $11 mil in 2011, so we might be able to. Nah, probably won't happen. :lol:

Offline I can Throw

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Re: O-Dog (Orlando Hudson)
« Reply #158 on: January 13, 2010, 02:50:02 pm »
So, any other 2b's out there besides..

O Hudson (wants $8 million - won't get it, probably $3-4 million base + incentives)
Adam Kennedy -
Mike Fontenot - cheap option, Big Lou has lost confidence in him. Probably .260+, 10-12 HRs, pretty good glove
Dan "the ugly man" Uggla - bit swing, lots of misses with bat and glove
Jed Lowrie - probably too expensive in a trade, but he would be my favorite choice to acquire.



I think these guys are attainable, just depends if Rizzo can work his magic on Lowrie. 

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: O-Dog (Orlando Hudson)
« Reply #159 on: January 13, 2010, 03:33:03 pm »
2010 CHONE projected batting and defense runs and WAR, from Fangraphs:

Hudson      2.2 / -1.0 / 2.2
Uggla      14.0 / -7.0 / 3.1
Kennedy  -6.3 / -4.0 / 0.8
Fontenot  -2.4 / 1.0 / 1.4
Lowrie     -4.4 / -4.0 / 1.0

Uggla and Hudson are rated as full time players, Kennedy 3/4, Fontenot and Lowrie 2/3.  Since this counts accumulated projected runs, you can assume the run totals go up as the later three get closer to full time.  Fontenot might be pretty cheap and attractive out of this bunch.  I still think Guzman will actually be better defensively at 2d than all of these guys.   CHONE project a 1.8 WAR with 0.0 defense, but I don't know if that is at 2d or SS (looks like 2d).

Hudson and Uggla were 2.9 WAR last year, so I think the difference is based on a predicted deterioration of Hudson's offense.

Lowrie, of course, is the younger guy with upside.  With Bill Hall on the team and a slew off SS prospects behind him, this is kind of a make or break year for him.  He's slated for AAA to prove he's healthy and recover his prospect status.  He'll stay there until there is an injury ahead of him.  I think they are open to trading him, but the price may be high.  They think he is an MLB starter with average hitting and above average fielding at SS (not based on last year, but based on his minors track record). 

Offline I can Throw

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Re: O-Dog (Orlando Hudson)
« Reply #160 on: January 13, 2010, 03:38:46 pm »
2010 CHONE projected batting and defense runs and WAR, from Fangraphs:

Hudson      2.2 / -1.0 / 2.2
Uggla      14.0 / -7.0 / 3.1
Kennedy  -6.3 / -4.0 / 0.8
Fontenot  -2.4 / 1.0 / 1.4
Lowrie     -4.4 / -4.0 / 1.0

Uggla and Hudson are rated as full time players, Kennedy 3/4, Fontenot and Lowrie 2/3.  Since this counts accumulated projected runs, you can assume the run totals go up as the later three get closer to full time.  Fontenot might be pretty cheap and attractive out of this bunch.  I still think Guzman will actually be better defensively at 2d than all of these guys.   CHONE project a 1.8 WAR with 0.0 defense, but I don't know if that is at 2d or SS (looks like 2d).

Hudson and Uggla were 2.9 WAR last year, so I think the difference is based on a predicted deterioration of Hudson's offense.

Lowrie, of course, is the younger guy with upside.  With Bill Hall on the team and a slew off SS prospects behind him, this is kind of a make or break year for him.  He's slated for AAA to prove he's healthy and recover his prospect status.  He'll stay there until there is an injury ahead of him.  I think they are open to trading him, but the price may be high.  They think he is an MLB starter with average hitting and above average fielding at SS (not based on last year, but based on his minors track record). 

I'm not up on my chone stuff- simple English for me ;)

So what do those numbers mean?

Offline The Chief

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Re: O-Dog (Orlando Hudson)
« Reply #161 on: January 13, 2010, 03:41:05 pm »
CHONE projections - pronounced "shawn projections" :rimshot:

Offline sportsfan882

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Offline The Chief

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Re: O-Dog (Orlando Hudson)
« Reply #163 on: January 13, 2010, 03:43:08 pm »
I usually just type "baseball reference player name" in the address bar and let google find it for me.

Offline ronnynat

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Re: O-Dog (Orlando Hudson)
« Reply #164 on: January 13, 2010, 03:43:15 pm »
I'm not up on my chone stuff- simple English for me ;)

So what do those numbers mean?

Uggla will be the best hitter by far, the worst fielder, and the best overall player of that group. :lol:

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: O-Dog (Orlando Hudson)
« Reply #165 on: January 13, 2010, 03:44:29 pm »
2010 CHONE projected batting and defense runs and WAR, from Fangraphs:

Hudson      2.2 / -1.0 / 2.2
Uggla      14.0 / -7.0 / 3.1
Kennedy  -6.3 / -4.0 / 0.8
Fontenot  -2.4 / 1.0 / 1.4
Lowrie     -4.4 / -4.0 / 1.0

Uggla and Hudson are rated as full time players, Kennedy 3/4, Fontenot and Lowrie 2/3.  Since this counts accumulated projected runs, you can assume the run totals go up as the later three get closer to full time.  Fontenot might be pretty cheap and attractive out of this bunch.  I still think Guzman will actually be better defensively at 2d than all of these guys.   CHONE project a 1.8 WAR with 0.0 defense, but I don't know if that is at 2d or SS (looks like 2d).

Hudson and Uggla were 2.9 WAR last year, so I think the difference is based on a predicted deterioration of Hudson's offense.

Lowrie, of course, is the younger guy with upside.  With Bill Hall on the team and a slew off SS prospects behind him, this is kind of a make or break year for him.  He's slated for AAA to prove he's healthy and recover his prospect status.  He'll stay there until there is an injury ahead of him.  I think they are open to trading him, but the price may be high.  They think he is an MLB starter with average hitting and above average fielding at SS (not based on last year, but based on his minors track record). 

My head hurts.

Offline JMW IV

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Re: O-Dog (Orlando Hudson)
« Reply #166 on: January 13, 2010, 03:45:34 pm »
whoop de damn do.  you act like he hit .330 while everyone else was hitting .200.

the fact is that EVERYONE's offense dropped down the stretch. INCLUDING Zimmerman.

Re: O-Dog (Orlando Hudson)
« Reply #167 on: January 13, 2010, 03:47:46 pm »
My head hurts.

The Chone strikes again.

Offline blue911

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Re: O-Dog (Orlando Hudson)
« Reply #168 on: January 13, 2010, 04:03:44 pm »
The Chone strikes again.

Episode VII: The CHONE Wars.

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: O-Dog (Orlando Hudson)
« Reply #169 on: January 13, 2010, 04:07:03 pm »
Episode VII: The CHONE Wars.

Wouldn't it be The CHONE WARs?

Offline blue911

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Re: O-Dog (Orlando Hudson)
« Reply #170 on: January 13, 2010, 04:10:37 pm »

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: O-Dog (Orlando Hudson)
« Reply #171 on: January 13, 2010, 04:10:49 pm »
I'm not up on my chone stuff- simple English for me ;)

So what do those numbers mean?
My head hurts.

I don't blame anyone for "Huh?" reaction.  It's just that so much of this discussion is about predicting who would make more of a contribution, who will hit well, and who will field well that I thought letting someone who is regarded as being good at the predicting business and who looks at both offense and defense might be fun to consider.

CHONE is a system developed by Sean Smith that is pretty well regarded, has projected 2010, and is free.  Honestly, I don't know all the factors he looks at. In addition to major league numbers, it weighs minor league numbers (which is useful for Lowrie), and accounts for the age curve (that is, a player is likely to get better until 27 or so and start to deteriorate in his 30s).  Beyond that, I don't know.  I don't think it is as complex as PECOTA, which is proprietary for BP.  He also rates defense, and since I don't have a subscription to an online service that offers +/- or other systems, it is the best defensive projection I can get my hands on.

What surprised me was:
1)  Uggla's OBP makes up a lot for his poor average, even last year.
2) Just how close Uggla and Hudson were last year when you offset Uggla's O with his D.

The first two numbers are runs relative to an average player. Hitting is on all MLB players, defense I think is relative to the position the player plays at. Thus, Lowrie's defensive number might be for a SS, sicne that is where he has played the most in MLB.

The last number is projected WAR, which in the minds of some is good for absulutely nothing, but for others is the all knowing and all seeing sum of baseball, denominated in wins above replacement.  Replacement is minor league, easily available driftwood you can pay MLB minimum to.   WAR incorporates an estimate of playing time, too, so some of the reason Kennedy, Fontenot and Lowrie are lower than Hudson is because of playing time estimates.

I guess I'm skeptical that Hudson is much of an upgrade over Guzman at 2d.  We have a contract with Guz.  Why be desparate to pay an additional amount for no imporovement in performance?  W/R/T Uggla, how would his glove fit with our "pitch to contact" staff, especially Lannan, Marquis, and Stammen?  I think Guz is likely to be a better fielder at 2d than Uggla, and I think the defensive difference is more important with this staff than the general projections say they would be on an average team.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: O-Dog (Orlando Hudson)
« Reply #172 on: January 13, 2010, 04:12:50 pm »
Quote
I thought letting someone who is regarded as being good at the predicting business and who looks at both offense and defense might be fun to consider.

by this I mean Sean Smith a/k/a CHONE.

Offline houston-nat

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Re: O-Dog (Orlando Hudson)
« Reply #173 on: January 13, 2010, 04:35:53 pm »
Guzman is very obviously a better fielder than Uggla...

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: O-Dog (Orlando Hudson)
« Reply #174 on: January 13, 2010, 04:45:21 pm »
OWNED. Using MLB.com for stats = FAIL

Yes... because using the official website of MLB for stats is such a terrible idea.