2009/2010 Hot Stove Thread

[Lintyfresh85]

And so the bet begins.

[PANatsFan]

And so the bet begins.

Get ready to have a Tom Brady avatar for a loooooooong time

[JCA-CrystalCity]

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2010/01/14/lefty_shouse_gets_minor_league_deal_from_sox/

Lefty Type B, declined arb offer, so pushes our 2d round pick back a slot (vs. a retirement or resigning with the Rays).

Actually, because he signed a minor league deal, most likely this will not push our pick back unless MLB thinks it is a sham to deny the Rays a supplemental.  The usual rule I believe is not to look through the transaction even if the guy ends up being added to the opening day roster.  By signing a minor league contract instead of an MLB contract with another team, Shouse and the Red Sox helped the Nats.  

I expect those of you who give the Red Sox grief will write them a thank you note.

[blue911]

Actually, because he signed a minor league deal, most likely this will not push our pick back unless MLB thinks it is a sham to deny the Rays a supplemental.  The usual rule I believe is not to look through the transaction even if the guy ends up being added to the opening day roster.  By signing a minor league contract instead of an MLB contract with another team, Shouse and the Red Sox helped the Nats. 

I expect those of you who give the Red Sox grief will write them a thank you note.

I fail to see your logic.

[Minty Fresh]

I expect those of you who give the Red Sox grief will write them a thank you note.

Fine.

Dear Boston Red Sox,

Thanks.

Go freak yourselves.

Sincerely,


Minty Fresh

[JCA-CrystalCity]

I fail to see your logic.

Right now, our first pick in the 2d round will be either #51, if Rod Barajas signs a major league contract with any team other than the Jays before the draft, or #50, if he does not.  Had Shouse signed a major league contract with any team other the Rays, then our pick would have been #51 or #52.  By signing a minor league contract with the Red Sox, they took him off the market.  Hooray!

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Minty - Theo called me just to say that he really appreciates your warm thoughts and hopes your Ipod gets stuck on "Tessie."

[blue911]

Right now, our first pick in the 2d round will be either #51, if Rod Barajas signs a major league contract with any team other than the Jays before the draft, or #50, if he does not.  Had Shouse signed a major league contract with any team other the Rays, then our pick would have been #51 or #52.  By signing a minor league contract with the Red Sox, they took him off the market.  Hooray!

Compensation isn't based on the type of deal the player signs. It's based upon what was offered by his original team. If Rod Barajas signs a "players" contract, major league or not, the Blue Jays will receive compensation.

[Minty Fresh]

Minty - Theo called me just to say that he really appreciates your warm thoughts and hopes your Ipod gets stuck on "Tessie."

If I had an Ipod, I'd actually not mind it stuck on "Tessie."  I love the song.  

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Compensation isn't based on the type of deal the player signs. It's based upon what was offered by his original team. If Rod Barajas signs a "players" contract, major league or not, the Blue Jays will receive compensation.

I don't believe that is right.  Here is what Jim Callis says on BA.

By Jim Callis
January 18, 2010

E-mail Print


And then there were two. Type A free agent Jose Valverde signed with the Tigers (meaning the Astros get Detroit's first-round pick and the top choice in the supplemental first round), and Type B free agent Brian Shouse agreed to a minor league deal with the Red Sox (leaving the Rays with nothing because he didn't sign a big league contract). That leaves Type Bs Rod Barajas (Blue Jays) and Joel Pineiro (Cardinals) as the only compensation free agents who remain unsigned.

[blue911]

I don't believe that is right.  Here is what Jim Callis says on BA.

I believe Mr. Callis needs to read the CBA again. In particular Article XX.

[NatsAddict]

I believe Mr. Callis needs to read the CBA again. In particular Article XX.

Correct - it does not distinguish between major league and minor league contracts.

Article XX - Reserve System
Section B - Free Agency

(4) Compensation

(a) The former Club of a Player who: (i) became a free agent under this Section B; and (ii) ranks as a Type A or B Player as
defined below, shall be entitled to receive compensation subject to the provisions of subparagraph (c) below. Suchc ompensation shall consist solely of the amateur draft choices described in subparagraph (c) below and shall be awarded in the Major League Rule 4 Draft succeeding the Player’s election of free agency.

(b) A Type A or B Player shall be a Player who became a free agent under this Section and who ranks as a Type A or B Player
under the statistical system of ranking Players set forth in the document entitled “A Statistical System for the Ranking of Players,” using statistics based on a two-year average for each respective position group.

   Type A Players: A Type A Player shall be a Player who ranks in the upper twenty percent (20%) of his respective position group.

   Type B Players: AType B Player shall be a Player who ranks in the upper forty percent (40%) but not in the upper twenty percent (20%) of his respective position group.

(c) A Type A or B Player shall be subject to compensation only if (i) he signs a contract with another Club prior to December 1; or (ii) he is offered salary arbitration by his former Club on or before December 1 pursuant to Section B(3) of this Article XX and signs a contract with another Club.

For such Type A Players, compensation to the Player’s former Club shall be an amateur draft choice (“Regular Draft Choice”) of
the signing Club and an added amateur draft choice (“Special Draft Choice”) in the Major League Rule 4 Draft. For such Type B Players, compensation to the Player’s former Club shall be a Special Draft Choice in the Major League Rule 4 Draft.

(d) The Regular Draft Choice of the signing Club described in subparagraph (c) above shall not include any selection in the Rule 4
Draft awarded as compensation for failure to sign a Rule 4 Draft selection from the preceding year and shall be assigned as follows.

If the signing Club is among the first half of selecting Clubs, excluding selection(s) awarded as compensation for failing to sign a Rule 4 selection from the preceding year, then the choice to be assigned for the highest ranking free agent Player signed by such Club shall be its second choice, with choices in the next following rounds to be assigned as compensation for the signing of the other Players in descending order of ranking. If the signing Club is among the second half of selecting Clubs, excluding any selection(s) awarded as compensation for failing to sign a Rule 4 selection from the preceding year, then such compensation shall begin with the Club’s first choice.

The Special Draft Choices described in subparagraph (c) above shall be additional draft choices to be made immediately following
the first complete round of the draft and preceding the commencement of the second round. Clubs that have lost a Type APlayer shall receive the first selections, in the reverse order of their won-lost percentage in the preceding season. Following these selections, Clubs that have lost a Type B Player shall receive selections, in reverse order of their won-lost percentage in the preceding season. Ties shall be broken by lot.

CBA Article XX, Section B, Paragraph (4)

[PANatsFan]

Compensation isn't based on the type of deal the player signs. It's based upon what was offered by his original team. If Rod Barajas signs a "players" contract, major league or not, the Blue Jays will receive compensation.

So if he works as mascot for a couple months, then signs in June, that works?

[blue911]

So if he works as mascot for a couple months, then signs in June, that works?

Both are different than the case with Shouse.

[PANatsFan]

Both are different than the case with Shouse.

Yeah, I mean the mascot contract is not a player's contract, then there's no compensation after June. So a team could lock a guy up for 2 months as mascot for say $1million, then sign him to play from June on.

[blue911]

Yeah, I mean the mascot contract is not a player's contract, then there's no compensation after June. So a team could lock a guy up for 2 months as mascot for say $1million, then sign him to play from June on.

In theory but a scenario a la Gabe Kapler is more realistic.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

how is "Club" defined?  As an MLB club only or does it include its system?  In a sense, Shouse was signed by Pawtucket, not Boston.  He's not on the 40 man.

[blue911]

how is "Club" defined?  As an MLB club only or does it include its system?  In a sense, Shouse was signed by Pawtucket, not Boston.  He's not on the 40 man.

Does Pawtucket have it's own players or are they part of the Boston franchise?

[DPMOmaha]

Does Pawtucket have it's own players or are they part of the Boston franchise?

Each minor league team is independant of the club as far as ownership of the team goes.  The parent club fills the roster, but each team has a seperate owner and such.

[blue911]

Each minor league team is independant of the club as far as ownership of the team goes.  The parent club fills the roster, but each team has a seperate owner and such.

 Liberty Media owns both the Atlanta and Gwinnett Braves.

[DPMOmaha]

Liberty Media owns both the Atlanta and Gwinnett Braves.

that's possible, of course, but they don't own Gwinnett because they own Atlanta, they were seperate purchases, at least in most cases.

[blue911]

that's possible, of course, but they don't own Gwinnett because they own Atlanta, they were seperate purchases, at least in most cases.

Without going through a whole page of buys and sells, I think that Liberty acquired them from Ted Turner.

[DPMOmaha]

Without going through a whole page of buys and sells, I think that Liberty acquired them from Ted Turner.

That's possible too, they're still likely seperate entities.  The Braves, I guess, could have a seperate system set up, but I know most of them are independently owned.  That's why you can have as much movement from city to city.  The teams still keep the same names and such, but their affiliation changes.  I know the Royals are set up so the minor league affiliates are owned seperately.  When the Cubs sale went through it was for the Cubs, not their AAA team and on down.  So, even though Liberty Media owns both Atlanta and Gwinnett, they are still seperate entities, in all likelyhood. 

[blue911]

That's possible too, they're still likely seperate entities.  The Braves, I guess, could have a seperate system set up, but I know most of them are independently owned.  That's why you can have as much movement from city to city.  The teams still keep the same names and such, but their affiliation changes.  I know the Royals are set up so the minor league affiliates are owned seperately.  When the Cubs sale went through it was for the Cubs, not their AAA team and on down.  So, even though Liberty Media owns both Atlanta and Gwinnett, they are still seperate entities, in all likelyhood. 

I'm not sure what difference it makes. The contracts are owned by the major league club and that is the real value of the club.

[blue911]

Theo signing Shouse to a minor league deal allows Boston two months of breathing room before they have to cut somebody. That is smart.