Author Topic: We are too SMART S-M-R-T! (BP names Dukes, Milledge, Zimm break out hitters)  (Read 4160 times)

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Offline R-Zim#11

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Elijah Dukes, Nationals, OF (.278/.386/.486, 4.0 WARP, 54% Breakout Rate)

Elijah Dukes

Will 2009 be a breakthrough for Elijah Dukes?

Dukes was dumped by the Rays due to some scary off-field problems, but the Nationals willingly took a chance by buying low, and their reward was the team's most productive hitter last season, at least when he was available. Unfortunately, Dukes made three separate trips to the disabled list and underwent arthroscopic knee surgery, but he showed excellent power (13 homers), plate discipline (one walk for every 6.7 PA), and speed (13 steals in 17 attempts) in 81 games, while establishing some order in his life beyond the diamond. Forecast to match last year's .302 EqA, the highest among qualifiers, he should provide a much-needed jolt to the Nationals' offense, though as you'll see, he's not alone here.

Lastings Milledge, Nationals, CF (.281/.352/.442, 3.3 WARP, 43% Breakout Rate)
Ryan Zimmerman, Nationals, 3B (.289/.358/.471, 4.2 WARP, 40% Breakout Rate)

Ryan Zimmerman

Will Ryan Zimmerman rebound from a down 2008?

Two more Nats crack this list, and aside from both being 24 years old, they're as different as night and day. Milledge was a top prospect who had fallen out of favor with the Mets due to maturity issues; as with Dukes, general manager Jim Bowden took a worthwhile gamble by buying low. While his overall 2008 numbers weren't inspiring, Milledge hit .318/.378/.485 over the final two months after returning from a groin injury, compared to .237/.300/.351 prior. As for Zimmerman, despite face-of-the-franchise status, he's been receding since finishing second in the 2006 NL Rookie of the Year voting. A slow start and a shoulder injury took a huge bite out of his production last year, but a .306/.370/.455 second half heralded a return to form, and while he may not be David Wright, it's far too soon to give up on him.

Very interesting...I feel so smart sometimes :)

Link: http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/news/story?id=3919662

Offline wpa2629

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 8)

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/news/story?id=3919662


BP Daily: Ranking the breakout hitters
D'Backs, Nationals and Reds dominate list of potential stars
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Insider
By Jay Jaffe
Baseball Prospectus

Not every top prospect hits the ground running the way recent Rookie of the Year winners like Evan Longoria and Ryan Braun did, stepping into a major league lineup and putting up All-Star caliber numbers. Sometimes it takes a couple of years' worth of experience and adjustments for a high-upside player to reach his potential, but when he does, look out.

Our PECOTA projection system can help to identify such players via a trio of categories called Breakout, Improve, and Decline, which estimate the likelihood of a player's production significantly rising or falling relative to his established baseline level. Breakout Rate is the percent chance that a hitter's equivalent runs produced per plate appearance will improve by at least 20 percent relative to the weighted average of his performance over the last three years. A high rate generally indicates a high upside, though it's worth noting the Ugueto Effect, in which the system will estimate a high rate for a horrible player simply because there's nowhere else for him to go.

What follows are a handful of players -- curiously concentrated among a small number of teams -- whom PECOTA sees as excellent breakout candidates at the major league level this year, with Breakout Rates of at least 33 percent. Each is forecast for at least 400 plate appearances, a .275 Equivalent Average, and 2.5 WARP. Most are familiar names from recent Top 100 Prospects lists whom you'll likely hear even more about as they approach their considerable potentials. Each is listed with his weighted mean triple-slash rates, his WARP forecast, and his Breakout Rate.

Justin Upton, Diamondbacks, RF (.278/.361/.506, 2.5 WARP, 59% Breakout Rate)

Justin Upton
Rick Scuteri/US PresswireJustin Upton tops the 2009 breakout list.
The first overall pick of the 2005 draft put up decent numbers for a 20-year-old last year (.250/.353/.463 with 15 homers in 417 PA), a sure sign that he's a special talent. Nonetheless, his season was uneven; he clubbed five home runs in the first 11 games, but hit just .220/.345/.427 after April, spending most of July and August in Triple-A as he rehabbed an oblique injury and regained his confidence. PECOTA rates his breakout potential higher than any other qualifying player, and while he won't turn into Ken Griffey Jr. overnight, he's on his way.

Elijah Dukes, Nationals, OF (.278/.386/.486, 4.0 WARP, 54% Breakout Rate)

Elijah Dukes
Mitchell Layton/Getty ImagesWill 2009 be a breakthrough for Elijah Dukes?
Dukes was dumped by the Rays due to some scary off-field problems, but the Nationals willingly took a chance by buying low, and their reward was the team's most productive hitter last season, at least when he was available. Unfortunately, Dukes made three separate trips to the disabled list and underwent arthroscopic knee surgery, but he showed excellent power (13 homers), plate discipline (one walk for every 6.7 PA), and speed (13 steals in 17 attempts) in 81 games, while establishing some order in his life beyond the diamond. Forecast to match last year's .302 EqA, the highest among qualifiers, he should provide a much-needed jolt to the Nationals' offense, though as you'll see, he's not alone here.

Chris Young, Diamondbacks, CF (.268/.341/.487, 3.8 WARP, 43% Breakout Rate)

Chris Young
Mark J. Rebilas/US PresswireChris Young joins teammate Upton as one to watch.
Let's face it, PECOTA has a serious crush on the Diamondbacks, forecasting them for 87 wins last year and 92 this year thanks in part to the presence of multiple high-upside youngsters. Nonetheless, the Snakes fell short of their potential in 2008 because they ranked 13th in the league in Equivalent Average, with Young's .315 OBP, mostly while batting in the lineup's top two spots, one of their most glaring problems. His isn't a simple case of plate discipline -- Young actually improved his walk rate 27 percent from 2007, but contact problems and a low batting average on balls in play depressed his batting average well below what a player whose power and speed both profile above the 80th percentile should have. PECOTA retains plenty of optimism, hence his appearance here.

Lastings Milledge, Nationals, CF (.281/.352/.442, 3.3 WARP, 43% Breakout Rate)
Ryan Zimmerman, Nationals, 3B (.289/.358/.471, 4.2 WARP, 40% Breakout Rate)

Ryan Zimmerman
AP Photo/Lawrence JacksonWill Ryan Zimmerman rebound from a down 2008?
Two more Nats crack this list, and aside from both being 24 years old, they're as different as night and day. Milledge was a top prospect who had fallen out of favor with the Mets due to maturity issues; as with Dukes, general manager Jim Bowden took a worthwhile gamble by buying low. While his overall 2008 numbers weren't inspiring, Milledge hit .318/.378/.485 over the final two months after returning from a groin injury, compared to .237/.300/.351 prior. As for Zimmerman, despite face-of-the-franchise status, he's been receding since finishing second in the 2006 NL Rookie of the Year voting. A slow start and a shoulder injury took a huge bite out of his production last year, but a .306/.370/.455 second half heralded a return to form, and while he may not be David Wright, it's far too soon to give up on him.

Edwin Encarnacion, Reds, 3B (.283/.365/.493, 3.3 WARP, 38% Breakout Rate)
Jay Bruce, Reds, RF (.283/.342/.509, 3.7 WARP, 36% Breakout Rate)

Jay Bruce
AP Photo/Al BehrmanJay Bruce will be in the spotlight again in 2009.
Despite last year's spiking strikeout rate, a result of becoming too pull-happy, the 26-year-old Encarnacion has put up consistent .275-.280 EqAs over the past three years. Nonetheless, his managers have beaten him like a red-headed stepchild due to lousy play at the hot corner: 17 runs below average last year, 37 below for his career. The Reds' crowded outfield and the presence of Joey Votto at first base preclude a much-needed position shift, so Encarnacion would benefit from a change of scenery, but even if that doesn't happen, PECOTA remains confident that he can rake, foreseeing career highs in both on-base and slugging percentages. Meanwhile, Bruce topped our prospect list last year and hit .400/.500/.636 in his first two weeks after being recalled around Memorial Day. He struggled mightily thereafter (.232/.282/.425), and was eaten alive by lefties (.190/.263/.299), but PECOTA strongly believes he can overcome that drastic platoon split, forecasting a .257/.313/.468 line against southpaws.

Adam Jones, Orioles, CF (.278/.331/.470, 3.3 WARP, 36% Breakout Rate)

Adam Jones
Mark Goldman/Icon SMIAdam Jones is one of the O's young hopes.
Acquired from Seattle last winter in the five-for-one Erik Bedard swap, the 23-year-old Jones is expected to be a cornerstone of the Orioles' resurgence. His first year didn't go quite as planned thanks to an ugly 4-to-1 strikeout-to-walk rate and a dreadful September (.228/.262/.380) following a return from a broken foot. Despite his problems controlling the strike zone, PECOTA sees enough in Jones' combination of speed, power, and defense that his top comparables are Andre Dawson, Ellis Burks, Dwight Evans, and Garry Maddox, a quartet that combined for 13 All-Star Game appearances, 10 Top 10 MVP finishes, and 25 Gold Gloves. Speaking of the Oriole outfield, keep an eye on recent acquisition Felix Pie, who fell just short of this list and who will flank Jones in left field.

Jay Jaffe is an author for Baseball Prospectus.



Offline wpa2629

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oops ... I just posted the same thing -- feel free to delete mine Chief ...

Offline The Chief

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Merge is fine, in case anyone wants the extra info.

Offline wpa2629

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Offline tomterp

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They let anybody post BP stuff these days.   :?

Offline wpa2629

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They let anybody post BP stuff these days.   :?

haha ... Usurped again ... don't you HATE it when that happens?

Offline natsfan4evr

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Wow, that's sweet
Combine them with Dunn, Nick until he gets hurt, Willingham, Guzman, and Flores and you have the makings of a top 10 offense.

Offline spidernat

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Why is this accepted yet when bad news is posted it is denounced as trash, bias or both?

Offline DCFan

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Why is this accepted yet when bad news is posted it is denounced as trash, bias or both?

 :rofl: :funny:

Why is this accepted yet when bad news is posted it is denounced as trash, bias or both?

Is this question stuck at the front of your lexicon?

Offline sportsfan882

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Why is this accepted yet when bad news is posted it is denounced as trash, bias or both?
It's all about the quality of work and research that the author/writer put into the work. You can tell that this particular piece was well done and fairly done.

You can deny it all you want but the fact is that it is impossible for Keith Law and others to write/post anything about the Nats without letting their bias and hatred of the team spew onto the paper.

Offline R-Zim#11

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Why is this accepted yet when bad news is posted it is denounced as trash, bias or both?

B/c we, on the whole agree with it...

Offline spidernat

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I actually agree with the predictions. I think all 3 of those are due to breakout, especially Milledge and Dukes. But I think it's clear that some of you refuse to accept anything that is remotely negative about the Nationals and will use sportsfan's wash about quality of work and research and all that crap to mask that reality. To actually believe that these guys hold a grudge or hatred for the Nats is irrational.

Is this question stuck at the front of your lexicon?


I didn't get the copy that starts off whining about the hate the media harbors for the Nats. 


B/c we, on the whole agree with it...

:rofl:  At least you're honest about it.

Offline sportsfan882

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I actually agree with the predictions. I think all 3 of those are due to breakout, especially Milledge and Dukes. But I think it's clear that some of you refuse to accept anything that is remotely negative about the Nationals and will use sportsfan's wash about quality of work and research and all that crap to mask that reality. To actually believe that these guys hold a grudge or hatred for the Nats is irrational.


I didn't get the copy that starts off whining about the hate the media harbors for the Nats.  (Image removed from quote.)
I 100% truly believe that K-Law and probably a few others hate the Nats for a number of reasons (mainly Bowden).

But I think it's clear that some of you refuse to accept anything that is remotely negative about the Nationals

And it's also pretty clear some around here don't believe a word of anything positive written about the Nationals. What sort of schmuck doesn't want to hear at least something positive about the team they are cheering for?

Offline The Chief

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Spider just likes to be a rebel.  Same reason he (and a few others) takes any chance to call people ass-kissers when the subject of players who read or have occasionally read the board comes up.  No offense, spidey.

RZ11 basically hit the nail on the head though - people tend to react negatively to things they don't agree with.  Big surprise then that people here react negatively to writers and outlets who frequently and vehemently disagree with them.  Absolute shocker :shock:

Offline spidernat

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And it's also pretty clear some around here don't believe a word of anything positive written about the Nationals. What sort of schmuck doesn't want to hear at least something positive about the team they are cheering for?

If it's true then fine but I don't want to hear positive crap that turns into a 102 loss season. What good is that? I can determine for myself what I deem positive and negative. I don't need some writer to tell me what he thinks in order to form an opinion of my team. I definitely don't need them to tell me our rotation is weak and that we have some hitters on the brink of coming into their own. But when they write it, I can accept both equally because it's their opinion (for what that's worth) and because I think they are both correct.

Offline spidernat

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Spider just likes to be a rebel.  Same reason he (and a few others) takes any chance to call people ass-kissers when the subject of players who read or have occasionally read the board comes up.  No offense, spidey.


I have to react negatively to this because the fact of the matter is that we do have serial ass kissers here.  :rofl:

Offline wpa2629

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Why is this accepted yet when bad news is posted it is denounced as trash, bias or both?

Because law has no credibility at all -- his articles are littered with personal attacks and factual errors -- he deserves to be blasted -- of course we'd rather hear positive things - we're Nats fans after all -- but overall, I think a lot of the other things that have been written, good and bad, have been, for the most part, fairly debated here -- but if you're going to use law as your measuring stick, you're going to come up on the short side of that argument every time

Offline R-Zim#11

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Spider just likes to be a rebel.  Same reason he (and a few others) takes any chance to call people ass-kissers when the subject of players who read or have occasionally read the board comes up.  No offense, spidey.

RZ11 basically hit the nail on the head though - people tend to react negatively to things they don't agree with.  Big surprise then that people here react negatively to writers and outlets who frequently and vehemently disagree with them.  Absolute shocker :shock:

Someone else stated too that the articles that are researched (like BP, BA, etc.) are more convincing and even-handed then the ones that are clearly off-the-cuff, lazy, get-it-in-for-the-deadline jobs.

MrMadison

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What two-bit hack wrote this bullcrap? Must have been that guy from nats320. it is obvious that this is some ridiculous homer bias. AZ next time you decide to write about the nationals, do some damn research before spouting off this homeriffic 'some nats players besides dunn could possibly be not horrible' nonsense.  dukes and milledge don't make enough money to actually be any good. (we needed some balance in this thread. it is entirely too positive.  happy, spider? :rofl:)

Offline Air Zimmerman

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i'm tellin' ya, worst to mother freaking first!

Offline spidernat

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Oh I get it, Law is the only one who has said negative things about the Nats.

Offline wpa2629

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Oh I get it, Law is the only one who has said negative things about the Nats.

Don't be ridiculous, of course not, but he is the one that's been universally blasted here and for good reason --