Plan "B"

[MrMadison]

I'm not sure how much credibility you had left sportsfan but it's dwindling with every post you make hating on Dunn. There has to be something more to this than meets the eye.

Dunn kicked his dog and killed his cat. or something equally heinous.

[cmdterps44]

Dunn is proven talent? I would have rather paid Hinske $1.5 Million for 1 year than $36 Million dollars for Dunn over 3 years. Both are similar in several ways except Hinske is far cheaper.

Throwing money at players just for the heck of it makes no sense. It has to be a sensible and wise move for both the short and long term.

Equal Similar isnt a word id use here. (I stand corrected)

[DCFan]

Equal isnt a word id use here.

Actually it wasn't.  He said similar.  But that's equally wrong. 

[MrMadison]

As far as he's concerned we want them to spend money for the hell of it, irrespective of the player in question.

and it isn't a matter of me "not getting it" or "refusing to correlate" whatever it is you think I'm not correlating.

I'm a proponent of signing free agents, not an opponent. I don't recall ever saying that not signing any free agents at all is a good idea. and I'm on your/hammonds/DCFan's side when it comes to Dunn.

with that said, for SOME people(but not all), both here and on other Nats forums, I do infact believe what I've quoted to be the case.  I won't deny that. That's my opinion based on the Cheap Lerner OMGSPENDSOMEMONEY rants I've seen posted both here and elsewhere.

[sportsfan882]

I'm not sure how much credibility you had left sportsfan but it's dwindling with every post you make hating on Dunn. There has to be something more to this than meets the eye. The blind hatred sportsfan has for Dunn is beyond explanation. He doubts that Dunn has talent yet loves dudes like Bernadina or other minor leaguer who haven't even approached to coffee pot. 

Dunn is a one trick pony. You know what you are going to get from him. Big boppers that hit for a low average and only hit HRs and play horrible defense to boot are vastly overrated. Pretty funny that most smart baseball minds agree with me on this case. Arguably no teams have shown much interest in all in Dunn this off-season. If he was worth signing he would already be off the market.

[MrMadison]

Dunn is a one trick pony.

So is Roger Bernadina.

If Dunn were 25 instead of 29, you'd love him.

[sportsfan882]

So is Roger Bernadina.

If Dunn were 25 instead of 29, you'd love him.

I'll never like a player that hits .230-.240. I believe in players that hit for a high BA. OBP is nice but BA is equally important.

[ronnynat]

Dunn is a one trick pony. You know what you are going to get from him. Big boppers that hit for a low average and only hit HRs and play horrible defense to boot are vastly overrated. Pretty funny that most smart baseball minds agree with me on this case. Arguably no teams have shown much interest in all in Dunn this off-season. If he was worth signing he would already be off the market.

Manny, Dunn, Abreu, Sheets, Oliver Perez, Orlando Hudson, Juan Cruz, and Orlando Cabrera are all still available. Are you telling me you think none of these guys are worth signing?

[spidernat]

So is Roger Bernadina.

If Dunn were 25 instead of 29, you'd love him.

That pony struggled to haul his own weight though. 

Equal Similar isnt a word id use here. (I stand corrected)

Here are their similarities, they both are about the same age, they have about the same number of stolen bases and they have similar batting averages.

Manny, Dunn, Abreu, Sheets, Oliver Perez, Orlando Hudson, Juan Cruz, and Orlando Cabrera are all still available. Are you telling me you think none of these guys are worth signing?

Those guys must be bums, especially the Ramirez guy. 

Whatever Dunn did to sportsfan must've been awful. Maybe if sportsfan was a character on Lost his name would be Dunn. 

[sportsfan882]

Manny, Dunn, Abreu, Sheets, Oliver Perez, Orlando Hudson, Juan Cruz, and Orlando Cabrera are all still available. Are you telling me you think none of these guys are worth signing?

Manny is a special situation. He's just as likely to retire. He'll sign with LA if he does elect to play. Abreu is too old. No one wants him anymore. Sheets is injury prone. Perez signed today and it has been known that he was going to stay with NY all offseason.  Cabrera is washed up. Cruz is decent but relievers are a dime a dozen.

Like I said, if Dunn was any good he would have been given a 4 year deal which he was seeking, weeks ago. Too bad for him no one wants him and he'll have to likely settle for a 1-year deal.

[MrMadison]

I'll never like a player that hits .230-.240.

but you like Hinske.

and you think that Jesus Flores of the .256 BA and .296 OBP is Godly.

[spidernat]

but you like Hinske.

and Jesus Flores of the .256 BA and .296 OBP.

Dude what's the matter with you, their averages are .254 and .252 respectively.   

[MrMadison]

Dude what's the matter with you their averages are .254 and .252 respectively.  

my bad, it's not quite .240. but not much better.

[sportsfan882]

but you like Hinske.

and Jesus Flores of the .256 BA and .296 OBP.

.256 is not .230 or .240. Flores also slumped at the end of the year and was unable to get his average back up at the end of the year because Utley took him out taking the last month of the season away from Jesus. Flores is also 24 years old, not 30 like Dunn. Dunn is never going to hit any higher either. He is what he is. Flores has plenty of room for improvement. The sky is the limit for him.

[MrMadison]

.256 is not .230 or .240.

it's not .270 or .280(i.e. a decent average, which is what you profess to believe in.)

Flores is also 24 years old, not 30 like Dunn.

yep. 

if Dunn was 25 you'd love him.

you have a bias against players who have moved on from being "prospects" into being major league regulars.

[spidernat]

.256 is not .230 or .240. Flores also slumped at the end of the year and was unable to get his average back up at the end of the year because Utley took him out taking the last month of the season away from Jesus. Flores is also 24 years old, not 30 like Dunn. Dunn is never going to hit any higher either. He is what he is. Flores has plenty of room for improvement. The sky is the limit for him.

    wow!

Since by your own admission Flores slumped at the end of they year, there's also the possibility that his BA would've dipped even lower if he had kept playing. Now you have something to be thankful to Utley for. 

[sportsfan882]

yep. 

if Dunn was 25 you'd love him.

Did you even read what I said? Dunn is never going to hit higher than .240-.250. He's past his prime and will start declining any year now. Flores is going to continue to improve. I'm hopeful he'll get his BA back up to the .270+ range and start to walk a little more. Nationals.com posted an article today on Jesus and he said that he will strive to up his BA and OBP this year and strike out less.

[MrMadison]

I'm hopeful he'll get his BA back up to the .270+ range and start to walk a little more. Nationals.com posted an article today on Jesus and he said that he will strive to up his BA and OBP this year and strike out less.

and if he doesn't, will you rip into him like you do into Dunn, and declare him a worthless bum?

no, you won't. because he's 24. and you have a bias for younger players as opposed to established major leaguers.

if Flores his .250 again this year, then I expect you to hate him just like you hate Dunn. especially since in this particular case, batting average is the only measure you are using to determine a player's worth.

[sportsfan882]

   wow!

Since by your own admission Flores slumped at the end of they year, there's also the possibility that his BA would've dipped even lower if he had kept playing. Now you have something to be thankful to Utley for. 

Nope. He's a streaky player. With every slump he has a hot streak to re-correct his BA. Jesus was batting .281 as of August 8th last year and fell down to .256 by September 2nd. A hot streak was soon to follow but d-bag Utley prevented that from happening.

[Natskins]

The Orioles are clearly behind us in terms of development. It's not even a question. Just look at their potential starters this year. They have a cast of minor league bums and Major league duds that are going to compete for their rotation in the Spring. We did the same thing a few years ago. We invited a ton of guys to camp just to see who would stick. Now this year we only have like 6 or 7 guys that are going for the 5 starting spots. They have Guthrie and then this cast of characters:


Burres
Liz
Pauley
Hendrickson
Penn
Bass
Waters
Hennessey
Hill

And they already demoted Burres to make room for Hill. Yeah, that's a pretty sketchy bunch there.

[spidernat]

Did you even read what I said? Dunn is never going to hit higher than .240-.250. He's past his prime and will start declining any year now.

crap that means Flores is about to pass his prime in a few short years. 

Nationals.com posted an article today on Jesus and he said that he will strive to up his BA and OBP this year and strike out less.

I believe I've heard this kind of talk before. Was he not striving for that last year?

[sportsfan882]

crap that means Flores is about to pass his prime in a few short years. 

I believe I've heard this kind of talk before. Was he not striving for that last year?

Dunn is fat, slow and out of shape. Players in his mold tend to flame out faster.

[ronnynat]

Manny is a special situation. He's just as likely to retire. He'll sign with LA if he does elect to play. Abreu is too old. No one wants him anymore. Sheets is injury prone. Perez signed today and it has been known that he was going to stay with NY all offseason.  Cabrera is washed up. Cruz is decent but relievers are a dime a dozen.

Abreu is solid. His being "old" won't keep a team from signing him.

How is Cabrera washed up? He's still one of the best all-around shortstops. Most people agree that he's better than Renteria, but Renteria just happened to get signed early.

The reason why these players haven't been signed yet is because there are a limited amount of spots open. Add to that the fact that some of these guys want more than some teams are willing to give them and it's easy to understand why they're still available. It doesn't mean they aren't worth getting, though.

[sportsfan882]

Abreu is solid. His being old won't keep a team from signing him.

How is Cabrera washed up? He's still one of the best all-around second basemen. Most people agree that he's better than Renteria, but Renteria just happened to get signed early.

The reason why these players haven't been signed yet is because there are a limited amount of spots open. Add to that the fact that some of these guys want more than some teams are willing to give them and it's easy to understand why they're still available. It doesn't mean they aren't worth getting, though.

If you want to settle for mediocrity and second and third tier players, fine. There's a reason why all the big studs (Sabathia, Tex, Burnett, etc) are all signed and guys like Dunn and Co. are still available.

[ronnynat]

If you want to settle for mediocrity and second and third tier players, fine. There's a reason why all the big studs (Sabathia, Tex, Burnett, etc) are all signed and guys like Dunn and Co. are still available.

We have ZERO "second tier" players right now. Everyone who doesn't suck on our team either has "potential to be a star" or is too injury prone.

I agree that Dunn isn't a superstar, but there are only so many available each offseason.