Plan "B"

[KnorrForYourMoney]

He's not a power hitter but he he's hit 10+ HRs each of the last 2 seasons. Last year he slugged .473.

He was fine defensively up until about last year when he really started to deteriorate in the field. Part of the reason for that though is that the Nats had him playing like 3 different positions simulataneously (3B, 2B, 1B).

But he's not a natural 1B.  He's too short for a 1B and can't stretch to field some of the more edgy throws.  Guzman's not always that accurate with his throwing, so we could use someone with height.

[sportsfan882]

But he's not a natural 1B.  He's too short for a 1B and can't stretch to field some of the more edgy throws.  Guzman's not always that accurate with his throwing, so we could use someone with height.

It's not his fault we are forced to put him at 1B. He's supposed to be a 2B-man only.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

I'm not blaming him or knocking him.  I'd just rather not have him at that particular position.  It's definitely the fault of the Nats' FO.

I think his best position is 3B.

[HalfSmokes]

I'm not blaming him or knocking him.  I'd just rather not have him at that particular position.  It's definitely the fault of the Nats' FO.

I think his best position is 3B.

His best position, and his position on most teams would be utility. He certainly does not have the bat to be a corner guy

[blue911]

Did you know that Belliard had a .925 OPS when playing first last year?

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Did you know that Belliard had a .925 OPS when playing first last year?

That's a really small sample size.  I don't think he's necessarily that much better offensively when he's playing first.

[blue911]

That's a really small sample size.  I don't think he's necessarily that much better offensively when he's playing first.

It's the same sample size people use to decry his ability.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Defense and offense are two different animals entirely.  You can just observe a guy playing a defensive position and pretty safely determine whether he's really suited for the position.  If you're arguing that a particular defensive position is more conducive to a guy's offensive abilities, for one reason or another, you really need to see them play over 100 games at that position to really get an idea.

[The Chief]

I don't understand the Belliard hate either.  He's a very sound contributor from an offensive standpoint.  He's got some pop, good BA, and maybe I'm drinking the kool-aid but I seem to remember him being RELATIVELY clutch (compared to some of our players).  The only thing wrong with him is that we were constantly forced to use him as a starting infielder.  He should be a bench player, and I believe that's what was envisioned when we gave him his current contract.  It's not his fault that he got pressed into service as a 1B/2B

[hammondsnats]

if you don't think ronnie baseball is a solid contributor to the team you're an idiot.  he's done everything and more that has been asked of him and has been a tremendous clubhouse presence for the younger guys, while also delivering for us in the clutch.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

I don't understand the Belliard hate either.  He's a very sound contributor from an offensive standpoint.  He's got some pop, good BA, and maybe I'm drinking the kool-aid but I seem to remember him being RELATIVELY clutch (compared to some of our players).  The only thing wrong with him is that we were constantly forced to use him as a starting infielder.  He should be a bench player, and I believe that's what was envisioned when we gave him his current contract.  It's not his fault that he got pressed into service as a 1B/2B

Totally agree with this.

I don't think anyone has hated on him, however.  Most people seem to imagine him as a starting 1B being kind of a worse-case scenario, which is pretty much true.

[blue911]

Defense and offense are two different animals entirely.  You can just observe a guy playing a defensive position and pretty safely determine whether he's really suited for the position.  If you're arguing that a particular defensive position is more conducive to a guy's offensive abilities, for one reason or another, you really need to see them play over 100 games at that position to really get an idea.

Yet you believe Adam Dunn will improve as a firstbaseman.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

I've never heard that he's an abysmal first baseman.  First base is the easiest defensive position on the field by far.  The only thing that's important is fielding throws from the other infielders.  Dunn has a decided advantage over Belliard there because he's much taller.

[blue911]

I've never heard that he's an abysmal first baseman.  First base is the easiest defensive position on the field by far.  The only thing that's important is fielding throws from the other infielders.  Dunn has a decided advantage over Belliard there because he's much taller.

That's silly. Don Mattingly was maybe 5'11" and he was a tremendous firstbaseman. Keith Hernandez  may have been 6' and he was fantastic. Ryan Howard  is 6'4", Carlos Degado is 6'3", Dmitri Young 6' 2",and they all blow. 

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Yeah, but Ronnie Belliard is shorter than my little sister.  I remember what he's like playing first base.  He can't pick a throw worth a crap.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Oh freak.  AZ is viewing this topic.

Splooge-o-rama in 5...4...3...

[ronnynat]

Yeah, but Ronnie Belliard is shorter than my little sister.  I remember what he's like playing first base.  He can't pick a throw worth a crap.

He has the arms/wingspan of a little person, too.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

I can't believe we're even comparing Belliard to Adam Dunn.  I don't remember Belliard ever hitting 40 homers or posting back-to-back .900+ OPS seasons. (Has he ever even had a .900 OPS season?)

[blue911]

I can't believe we're even comparing Belliard to Adam Dunn.  I don't remember Belliard ever hitting 40 homers or posting back-to-back .900+ OPS seasons. (Has he ever even had a .900 OPS season?)

How many did Dunn hit while playing defense?

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Huh?

My point is that someone like Belliard is probably not going to have his offensive contributions offset his poor defense.  Dunn has a track record of hitting well enough for that to happen.

[MrMadison]

How many did Dunn hit while playing defense?

we're not signing Dunn for his defense. if that were the case, we could just sign Doug Mien-whatever, and keep it moving. cause he's a GREAT defender. he can't hit for crap, but his defense is top-notch.

but we are looking at Dunn for an impact bat, not an impact glove. 

[blue911]

we're not signing Dunn for his defense. if that were the case, we could just sign Doug Mien-whatever, and keep it moving. cause he's a GREAT defender.

but we are looking at Dunn for an impact bat, not an impact glove.

That wasn't the issue, it was about how soon do you write off a players defense. Offense was never in question.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Well, since we're talking about Belliard's glove, I suppose he makes a fair point.  Like I said, though, Belly would have to hit as well as Dunn for his bad D at 1B to be offset by the rest of his contributions.  Not happening.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

That wasn't the issue, it was about how soon do you write off a players defense. Offense was never in question.

So you really think that Belliard could become an average defender at 1B?  He's in his 30's and he's short for the position.  I don't see it.

[MrMadison]

That wasn't the issue, it was about how soon do you write off a players defense. Offense was never in question.

or rather, how well does a player have to hit to outweigh below-average defense. I think Dunn's offense could outweigh his defense.

Manny, for example, is atrocious in the field, but nobody really complains very loudly about it, because he pounds the freak out of opposing pitchers.

and for that matter, is Dunn really as overwhelmingly bad as people make him out to be in the field?