Author Topic: Plan "B" (Read 127856 times)

tomterp · « **Reply #3125 on:** February 06, 2009, 01:32:35 pm »

Quote from: R-Zim#11 on February 06, 2009, 01:20:34 pm

Adam Dunn is not going to put us into contention. I am a firm believer that he might be nice for a year or two, but really, to what end? He may net us a couple of wins -- but I would rather put it into the Strasburg fund. I think that deal might be a record deal when done, and making sure the #10 pick gets signed as well.

Who was it that used that bus fare analogy? If I have no money, but need $1 for bus fare, and then find a quarter, do I throw it away because I need $1? No, I keep the quarter and keep looking for $0.75 more.

Nobody ever said that Dunn, or even Tex, would put us into contention by themselves. But each move would be incrementally beneficial, and the club just needs to get better. And Dunn would be a solid step toward having a respectable offense, something the Nats SORELY need.

HalfSmokes · « **Reply #3126 on:** February 06, 2009, 01:32:56 pm »

Quote from: R-Zim#11 on February 06, 2009, 01:20:34 pm

Here's my take on FA:

1. No one outside of the Yankees are spending.
2. Adam Dunn is not going to put us into contention. I am a firm believer that he might be nice for a year or two, but really, to what end? He may net us a couple of wins -- but I would rather put it into the Strasburg fund. I think that deal might be a record deal when done, and making sure the #10 pick gets signed as well.
3. This is NOT the same roster from last year. I really get irked when people say that -- it is simply not true.

Dunn would be the best slugger on this team. Babe Ruth in his prime wouldn't put this team into contention on his own - no player can add 20+ wins on their own to a team.

Whith all due respect to Willingham, Olsen, and Cabera, this is essentially the same roster with minor tweaks.

hammondsnats · « **Reply #3127 on:** February 06, 2009, 01:34:49 pm »

TOMTERP- hahaha i love the bus fare analogy.

HALFSMOKES- true knocking on the babe ruth comment.

DCFan · « **Reply #3128 on:** February 06, 2009, 01:50:25 pm »

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=rotowire-ndruwonesejectsankee&prov=rotowire&type=fantasy

Andruw Jones is still available since he turned down the Yanks offer of a minor league deal.

DCFan · « **Reply #3129 on:** February 06, 2009, 01:52:56 pm »

Quote from: tomterp on February 06, 2009, 01:32:35 pm

Nobody ever said that Dunn, or even Tex, would put us into contention by themselves. But each move would be incrementally beneficial, and the club just needs to get better. And Dunn would be a solid step toward having a respectable offense, something the Nats SORELY need.

This is so basic, so understandable, so true - you have to wonder how any Nats fan could find fault with this? Well said.

R-Zim#11 · « **Reply #3130 on:** February 06, 2009, 01:54:54 pm »

Quote from: HalfSmokes on February 06, 2009, 01:32:56 pm

Dunn would be the best slugger on this team. Babe Ruth in his prime wouldn't put this team into contention on his own - no player can add 20+ wins on their own to a team.

I think Dukes will be better. Just my opinion. I am not going to go all AZ on everyone -- but I really think Dukes will be an outstanding player.

Quote from: HalfSmokes on February 06, 2009, 01:32:56 pm

Whith all due respect to Willingham, Olsen, and Cabera, this is essentially the same roster with minor tweaks.

If you look at our opening day lineup last year I see A LOT of change. All but one of the pitchers are gone (I think Rivera is still around)

These guys are the dead weight from alst year that aren't figured to play any real prominent role or are no longer with the team:
Hill, Lo Duca, Chico, Bergmann, Ray King, Rob Mackowiak, Ayala, Johnny Estrada, FLop, Aaron Boone, WMP, Colome.

Hell, replacing Ayala alone with a juggs machine improves our win total by at least 5!

That's 12 players who have been replaced by younger more talented players that showed a lot of promise at the end of the year. Guys like:

Flores, Mock (as RP), Hinkley, Hanrahan, A. Hernandez, Balester, Zimmermann, Steven Shell, Luke Montz. Add Olsen and Willingham for basically Rauch and 2 low-A prospects, a healthy Dukes, Milledge and Zimmerman -- and cutting all the idiots -- Lenny Harris specifically -- in the dugout...you still want to say "this is the same team?"

sportsfan882 · « **Reply #3131 on:** February 06, 2009, 01:58:50 pm »

Quote from: R-Zim#11 on February 06, 2009, 01:54:54 pm

I think Dukes will be better. Just my opinion. I am not going to go all AZ on everyone -- but I really think Dukes will be an outstanding player.

If you look at our opening day lineup last year I see A LOT of change. All but one of the pitchers are gone (I think Rivera is still around)

These guys are the dead weight from alst year that aren't figured to play any real prominent role or are no longer with the team:
Hill, Lo Duca, Chico, Bergmann, Ray King, Rob Mackowiak, Ayala, Johnny Estrada, FLop, Aaron Boone, WMP, Colome.

Hell, replacing Ayala alone with a juggs machine improves our win total by at least 5!

That's 12 players who have been replaced by younger more talented players that showed a lot of promise at the end of the year. Guys like:

Flores, Mock (as RP), Hinkley, Hanrahan, A. Hernandez, Balester, Zimmermann, Steven Shell, Luke Montz. Add Olsen and Willingham for basically Rauch and 2 low-A prospects, a healthy Dukes, Milledge and Zimmerman -- and cutting all the idiots -- Lenny Harris specifically -- in the dugout...you still want to say "this is the same team?"

This is a completely different team from last year (although the signing of Perez yesterday pissed me off

).

Our bullpen is better, our rotation is better, our offense is better, our coaching staff is better and lastly our training staff/doctor are better. No way we lose anywhere near 100 games again.

DCFan · « **Reply #3132 on:** February 06, 2009, 01:59:18 pm »

Quote from: R-Zim#11 on February 06, 2009, 01:54:54 pm

I think Dukes will be better. Just my opinion. I am not going to go all AZ on everyone -- but I really think Dukes will be an outstanding player.

Dukes better than Babe Ruth!?! That only shows you're a freaking idiot of the highest magnitude!

hammondsnats · « **Reply #3133 on:** February 06, 2009, 02:01:09 pm »

Jayson Stark feels the Nats or Dodgers will sign Hudson to a one-year deal.

sportsfan882 · « **Reply #3134 on:** February 06, 2009, 02:02:23 pm »

Quote from: hammondsnats on February 06, 2009, 02:01:09 pm

Jayson Stark feels the Nats or Dodgers will sign Hudson to a one-year deal.

definitely not worth it then. 2nd round pick for 1 year of a league average 2B-man with a bad wrist? no thank you.

Nat of the Living Dead · « **Reply #3135 on:** February 06, 2009, 02:02:47 pm »

Quote from: DCFan on February 06, 2009, 01:59:18 pm

Dukes better than Babe Ruth!?! That only shows you're a freaking idiot of the highest magnitude!

I think he means Dukes will be better than Adam Dunn.

DCFan · « **Reply #3136 on:** February 06, 2009, 02:06:32 pm »

Quote from: Nat of the LivingDead on February 06, 2009, 02:02:47 pm

I think he means Dukes will be better than Adam Dunn.

The last line from HalfSmokes quote was pertaining to the Babe.

R-Zim#11 · « **Reply #3137 on:** February 06, 2009, 02:19:22 pm »

Quote from: Nat of the LivingDead on February 06, 2009, 02:02:47 pm

I think he means Dukes will be better than Adam Dunn.

Yes, thank you NOTLD -- I quoted the wrong bit of text...only an idiot would take that literally...

Quote from: DCFan on February 06, 2009, 01:59:18 pm

Dukes better than Babe Ruth!?! That only shows you're a freaking idiot of the highest magnitude!

I rest my case

UpperDec · « **Reply #3138 on:** February 06, 2009, 02:58:45 pm »

Quote from: sportsfan882 on February 06, 2009, 02:02:23 pm

definitely not worth it then. 2nd round pick for 1 year of a league average 2B-man with a bad wrist? no thank you.

1 year deal for Hudson. Hope he has a good year and remains a Type A or Type B free agent then you can, at worst, get a sandwich pick if the Nats can't resign him.

In other words we lose a 2nd round pick this year for a sandwich pick next year with a possible additional 1st rounder and we also get the services of a pretty good player who will be a leader that this team definitely needs. How is that not a good deal?

sportsfan882 · « **Reply #3139 on:** February 06, 2009, 03:09:12 pm »

Quote from: UpperDec on February 06, 2009, 02:58:45 pm

1 year deal for Hudson. Hope he has a good year and remains a Type A or Type B free agent then you can, at worst, get a sandwich pick if the Nats can't resign him.

In other words we lose a 2nd round pick this year for a sandwich pick next year with a possible additional 1st rounder and we also get the services of a pretty good player who will be a leader that this team definitely needs. How is that not a good deal?

First of all we don't direly need a 2B-man. Hudson is a marginal at best upgrade over Anderson Hernandez. I don't think he's worth the risk although I wouldn't be angry if we did sign Hudson. It wouldn't be a great move but it wouldn't be the end of the world either.

Many here have expressed concerns that his wrist injury will really hamper his ability to hit and field second base.

Being a "leader" is overrated. We've seen that several times here in NatsLand. Just ask NOTLD.

R-Zim#11 · « **Reply #3140 on:** February 06, 2009, 03:21:38 pm »

Quote from: sportsfan882 on February 06, 2009, 03:09:12 pm

First of all we don't direly need a 2B-man. Hudson is a marginal at best upgrade over Anderson Hernandez. I don't think he's worth the risk although I wouldn't be angry if we did sign Hudson. It wouldn't be a great move but it wouldn't be the end of the world either.

Many here have expressed concerns that his wrist injury will really hamper his ability to hit and field second base.

Being a "leader" is overrated. We've seen that several times here in NatsLand. Just ask NOTLD.

At this point in the Nats development -- I would rather see what Hernandez can do. If we were contenders, I would say get Hudson.

KnorrForYourMoney · « **Reply #3141 on:** February 06, 2009, 03:25:06 pm »

Yeah, I don't think it's worth giving up the pick for Hudson. I originally thought that Dunn would cost a pick, so signing Hudson along with him would cost a 3rd rounder (which isn't a huge loss). Now that I know that Dunn costs nothing, we might as well just keep all of our picks since Hudson really isn't a huge need.

UpperDec · « **Reply #3142 on:** February 06, 2009, 03:36:13 pm »

I think you guys are putting a lot of faith on a guy who had a carerr OBA of .310 and OPS of .664 in the MINORS.

I will hope with you that, this winter he became a good hitter, but just count me as a skeptic.

hammondsnats · « **Reply #3143 on:** February 06, 2009, 04:34:08 pm »

Quote

Boswell's line-up:

Guzman-4
Milledge-8
Johnson-3
Zimmerman-5
Dunn-7
Dukes-9
Flores-2
Belliard-4

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2009/02/03/DI2009020302358.html

I'd flip Dunn and Zim ... I'm okay with Ronnie Baseball/'360' battling it out for starting 2nd baseman.

KnorrForYourMoney · « **Reply #3144 on:** February 06, 2009, 05:40:34 pm »

Quote from: UpperDec on February 06, 2009, 03:36:13 pm

I think you guys are putting a lot of faith on a guy who had a carerr OBA of .310 and OPS of .664 in the MINORS.

I will hope with you that, this winter he became a good hitter, but just count me as a skeptic.

I've said the same thing here, but everyone is jumping over these small sample sizes of him being good. I'd have a short leash.

Having said that, might as well use one of the middle infielders we already have rather than give up a pick to sign Hudson.

Nat of the Living Dead · « **Reply #3145 on:** February 06, 2009, 05:43:15 pm »

The Winter Leagues should be treated just like Spring Training: what happens there needs to be taken with a grain of salt. I remain cautiously optimistic.

HalfSmokes · « **Reply #3146 on:** February 06, 2009, 05:49:53 pm »

Quote from: R-Zim#11 on February 06, 2009, 03:21:38 pm

At this point in the Nats development -- I would rather see what Hernandez can do. If we were contenders, I would say get Hudson.

Exactly, why give up a pick for 1 year of an average to above average player? Unless we plan on making a push in that year, or think we can flip him for something more valuable that the pick we're giving up (probably top 5 in the second round), its a bad move.

hammondsnats · « **Reply #3147 on:** February 06, 2009, 06:28:09 pm »

Quote from: Nat of the LivingDead on February 06, 2009, 05:43:15 pm

The Winter Leagues should be treated just like Spring Training: what happens there needs to be taken with a grain of salt. I remain cautiously optimistic.

A lot of players use winter leagues to work off rust and showcase for jobs. I don't put a great deal of stock into it, but it can still be a telling sign. Looks like our guys had a pretty good showing.

hammondsnats · « **Reply #3148 on:** February 06, 2009, 06:38:05 pm »

Just continuing the trend of guys who have had possible ties to the Nats . . . Randy Wolf has signed with the Dodgers.

Not a big loss if you ask me.

hammondsnats · « **Reply #3149 on:** February 06, 2009, 06:48:43 pm »

And Luis Ayala has joined the Twins.