Author Topic: Debunking the Dave Martinez critics  (Read 1384 times)

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Offline nationals28

  • Posts: 28
Debunking the Dave Martinez critics
« on: June 26, 2019, 12:36:37 pm »
We know there are many on this board who like to claim Dave Martinez has “underperformed” as Nationals manager, but it’s pretty easy to debunk their asinine reasoning and demonstrate that the Martinez era has in fact been fairly successful as things go.

For one thing, Martinez is on pace to win at least 70 games for the second straight season. Not only would that be a remarkable accomplishment for a team that hasn’t had a win total in the 70s since 2007, but it would be doubly remarkable as no other Nationals manager has won even a single game while managing the team the last two seasons. Some on here act like it would be “disappointing” to “only” see the team win 80 games with a roster whose WAR suggests it should win at least 90, but there literally hasn’t been a single season in the past two years when the Nationals reached 90 wins. So stop setting a fictional bar just as an excuse to criticize the manager.

The Martinez critics also just love to point out how the Nationals won 96 and 97 games respectively the two years before he took over in 2016 and 2017 as though that has any relevance to 2018 or 2019. For one thing, the 2018 team was a completely different team than the prior two years, as Dusty Baker never had to deal with the notorious underperformance of noted emergent locker room cancer Juan Soto, and was instead blessed with a veritable platoon of dynamic left fielders.

And for those who still contend a .500 record with such a talented roster is so terrible, ever heard of sample sizes? The baseball season is not nearly long enough to get a decent read on whether a manager is any good in just one year. After all, the 1927 Yankees lost 44 games, and had you taken any of those games in isolation they’d have been on pace for a lower winning percentage than Dave Martinez. Let’s give the guy some time, people. 250 games? How about 10,000 at least to get a decent reading.

This board is also full of playoff dreamers who live in an utter fantasy world. They act like the four playoff teams in six years that the Nationals fielded prior to the Martinez hire actually played against actual opponents to get there. They also claim that just because the Nationals are spending a lot on their roster is some kind of indicator that the team could be “expected” to make the playoffs or something, as though it’s some kind of birthright that the 5th highest paid team in baseball might be expected to be one of the sport’s 10 best teams. Simple math, however, tells us that 10 is bigger than 5. Duh.

Another criticism has to do with the team’s lack of focus on fundamentals or preparation, as though the atrocious bullpen or little league baserunning antics are Martinez’ fault. What do we think, that these players just learned how to pitch under Martinez? Many of them were solid performers, even All Stars and league leaders before they got here. Just because there’s a single common denominator amidst their collective decline (Dave Martinez) doesn’t mean they didn’t all just magically deteriorate on their own.

Martinez’ critics also point to his poor skills managing the team in-game, particularly his obsession with sacrificing like crazy, trading outs for bases in early innings for the sake of single runs at the expense of potential big innings and therefore doom the team later on in games, something evidenced by his atrocious record in close games and his teams’ consistent underperformance relative to their Pythagorean run totals. But it’s a strategy that’s paid off. Even though it’s killed their overall record by decimating their potential to get the kinds of big innings they’d need to win games, the 2018 team massively outperformed the 2017 team in the first inning. Sacrificing for the lone run for the first inning win! If baseball would just get its rules right and decide that only the runs scored in the first inning should count, Martinez’ would be among baseball’s best managers!

Finally, Martinez has been criticized for managing the team with an infantile, childish approach, and for being an introvert who doesn’t carry enough gravitas for a job that’s largely about communication. But he’s literally one guy out of a clubhouse, including the players, that’s over 40 people. 1 out of 40, and he doesn’t even get to play a position. And you’re out blaming him for the team’s underperformance? Fat chance. That’s literally like 2%. And furthermore, communication is not a prerequisite to being a great leader. After all, Calvin Coolidge was notoriously quiet and he was president!

So there you go, Nationals fans. Check and mate. Martinez critics, utterly debunked. Strap in for 77-85 and you better darn enjoy it because unlike Dusty, that’s REAL success. Martinez has literally not choked once in the playoffs the way Dusty did, and it’s a safe bet he never will.

Offline Terps and Nats

  • Posts: 562
  • Wake me when the Braves series is over
Re: Debunking the Dave Martinez critics
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2019, 12:45:02 pm »
decent start, but ultimately, too long; didnt read.

Offline nationals28

  • Posts: 28
Re: Debunking the Dave Martinez critics
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2019, 12:47:06 pm »
decent start, but ultimately, too long; didnt read.

Would bullet points help?

Offline Terps and Nats

  • Posts: 562
  • Wake me when the Braves series is over
Re: Debunking the Dave Martinez critics
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2019, 12:50:25 pm »
probably

Offline ajcartwright

  • Posts: 2362
Re: Debunking the Dave Martinez critics
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2019, 12:55:29 pm »
 :hysterical:
you are obviously well versed in management speak and satire

Offline UMDNats

  • Posts: 18070
Re: Debunking the Dave Martinez critics
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2019, 12:58:38 pm »
Dave Martinez World Series rings as a coach: 1
Dusty Baker World Series rings as a coach: 0


Offline GburgNatsFan

  • Posts: 22349
  • Let's drink a few for Mathguy.
Re: Debunking the Dave Martinez critics
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2019, 01:38:11 pm »
Settle down, coladar.


(Whatever happened to that guy?)

We know there are many on this board who like to claim Dave Martinez has “underperformed” as Nationals manager, but it’s pretty easy to debunk their asinine reasoning and demonstrate that the Martinez era has in fact been fairly successful as things go.

For one thing, Martinez is on pace to win at least 70 games for the second straight season. Not only would that be a remarkable accomplishment for a team that hasn’t had a win total in the 70s since 2007, but it would be doubly remarkable as no other Nationals manager has won even a single game while managing the team the last two seasons. Some on here act like it would be “disappointing” to “only” see the team win 80 games with a roster whose WAR suggests it should win at least 90, but there literally hasn’t been a single season in the past two years when the Nationals reached 90 wins. So stop setting a fictional bar just as an excuse to criticize the manager.

The Martinez critics also just love to point out how the Nationals won 96 and 97 games respectively the two years before he took over in 2016 and 2017 as though that has any relevance to 2018 or 2019. For one thing, the 2018 team was a completely different team than the prior two years, as Dusty Baker never had to deal with the notorious underperformance of noted emergent locker room cancer Juan Soto, and was instead blessed with a veritable platoon of dynamic left fielders.

And for those who still contend a .500 record with such a talented roster is so terrible, ever heard of sample sizes? The baseball season is not nearly long enough to get a decent read on whether a manager is any good in just one year. After all, the 1927 Yankees lost 44 games, and had you taken any of those games in isolation they’d have been on pace for a lower winning percentage than Dave Martinez. Let’s give the guy some time, people. 250 games? How about 10,000 at least to get a decent reading.

This board is also full of playoff dreamers who live in an utter fantasy world. They act like the four playoff teams in six years that the Nationals fielded prior to the Martinez hire actually played against actual opponents to get there. They also claim that just because the Nationals are spending a lot on their roster is some kind of indicator that the team could be “expected” to make the playoffs or something, as though it’s some kind of birthright that the 5th highest paid team in baseball might be expected to be one of the sport’s 10 best teams. Simple math, however, tells us that 10 is bigger than 5. Duh.

Another criticism has to do with the team’s lack of focus on fundamentals or preparation, as though the atrocious bullpen or little league baserunning antics are Martinez’ fault. What do we think, that these players just learned how to pitch under Martinez? Many of them were solid performers, even All Stars and league leaders before they got here. Just because there’s a single common denominator amidst their collective decline (Dave Martinez) doesn’t mean they didn’t all just magically deteriorate on their own.

Martinez’ critics also point to his poor skills managing the team in-game, particularly his obsession with sacrificing like crazy, trading outs for bases in early innings for the sake of single runs at the expense of potential big innings and therefore doom the team later on in games, something evidenced by his atrocious record in close games and his teams’ consistent underperformance relative to their Pythagorean run totals. But it’s a strategy that’s paid off. Even though it’s killed their overall record by decimating their potential to get the kinds of big innings they’d need to win games, the 2018 team massively outperformed the 2017 team in the first inning. Sacrificing for the lone run for the first inning win! If baseball would just get its rules right and decide that only the runs scored in the first inning should count, Martinez’ would be among baseball’s best managers!

Finally, Martinez has been criticized for managing the team with an infantile, childish approach, and for being an introvert who doesn’t carry enough gravitas for a job that’s largely about communication. But he’s literally one guy out of a clubhouse, including the players, that’s over 40 people. 1 out of 40, and he doesn’t even get to play a position. And you’re out blaming him for the team’s underperformance? Fat chance. That’s literally like 2%. And furthermore, communication is not a prerequisite to being a great leader. After all, Calvin Coolidge was notoriously quiet and he was president!

So there you go, Nationals fans. Check and mate. Martinez critics, utterly debunked. Strap in for 77-85 and you better darn enjoy it because unlike Dusty, that’s REAL success. Martinez has literally not choked once in the playoffs the way Dusty did, and it’s a safe bet he never will.

Offline bluestreak

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Re: Debunking the Dave Martinez critics
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2019, 02:44:09 pm »
Dave Martinez World Series rings as a coach: 1
Dusty Baker World Series rings as a coach: 0

But Dusty won one as a player, which we have established in the other thread is more important.

Offline nationals28

  • Posts: 28
Re: Debunking the Dave Martinez critics
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2019, 04:13:22 pm »
Dave Martinez World Series rings as a coach: 1
Dusty Baker World Series rings as a coach: 0

Casey Stengel won 7 World Series rings as a manager. Maybe his corpse is around somewhere.

If past participation on a World Series winner is your criterion, there's a long list of candidates. Hell, here are some managers who won World Series' who are currently looking for work:

John Farrell
Joe Torre
Joe Girardi
Tony La Russa
Charlie Manuel
Ozzie Guillen
Jack McKeon
Mike Scoscia
Bob Brenly
Jim Leyland
Bobby Cox
Cito Gaston
Tom Kelly
Lou Pinella
Tommy Lasorda
Davey Johnson
Joe Altobelli
Whitey Herzog

Offline bluestreak

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Re: Debunking the Dave Martinez critics
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2019, 04:17:30 pm »
Casey Stengel won 7 World Series rings as a manager. Maybe his corpse is around somewhere.

If past participation on a World Series winner is your criterion, there's a long list of candidates. Hell, here are some managers who won World Series' who are currently looking for work:

John Farrell
Joe Torre
Joe Girardi
Tony La Russa
Charlie Manuel
Ozzie Guillen
Jack McKeon
Mike Scoscia
Bob Brenly
Jim Leyland
Bobby Cox
Cito Gaston
Tom Kelly
Lou Pinella
Tommy Lasorda
Davey Johnson
Joe Altobelli
Whitey Herzog

Pretty generous to say that Whitey Herzog, Tommy Lasorda and Bobby Cox(!) are looking for work....

Offline UMDNats

  • Posts: 18070
Re: Debunking the Dave Martinez critics
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2019, 04:26:48 pm »
I'm Team LaSorda. Every game can start at 11 a.m. and he'll call Dan Kolko names.

Online Slateman

  • Posts: 66856
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX
Re: Debunking the Dave Martinez critics
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2019, 06:13:16 pm »
Jayson Werth has a ring. Let's bring him back. Morse can be the hitting coach.

Offline Greg_SRT

  • Posts: 4030
  • Fun while it lasted
Re: Debunking the Dave Martinez critics
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2019, 06:55:54 pm »
Good troll this is not

Offline DCFan

  • Posts: 16722
  • What are you dense?
Re: Debunking the Dave Martinez critics
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2019, 07:46:20 pm »
decent start, but ultimately, too long; didnt read.

+1

Offline Copecwby20

  • Posts: 2478
Re: Debunking the Dave Martinez critics
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2019, 12:16:31 am »
glub, spit, gag

Holy crap, I wish my ex wife choked on my cock as hard as you just did on Dave’s.

Offline bluestreak

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Re: Debunking the Dave Martinez critics
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2019, 12:22:33 am »
Holy crap, I wish my ex wife choked on my cock as hard as you just did on Dave’s.

I couldn’t read the whole thing, but I think it’s the opposite.

Offline dracnal

  • Posts: 1703
Re: Debunking the Dave Martinez critics
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2019, 12:36:42 am »
I couldn’t read the whole thing, but I think it’s the opposite.

Yep. It's basically a very long Onion article.

Offline Bloo

  • Posts: 2415
Re: Debunking the Dave Martinez critics
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2019, 01:06:51 am »
We know there are many on this board who like to claim Dave Martinez has “underperformed” as Nationals manager, but it’s pretty easy to debunk their asinine reasoning and demonstrate that the Martinez era has in fact been fairly successful as things go.

For one thing, Martinez is on pace to win at least 70 games for the second straight season. Not only would that be a remarkable accomplishment for a team that hasn’t had a win total in the 70s since 2007, but it would be doubly remarkable as no other Nationals manager has won even a single game while managing the team the last two seasons. Some on here act like it would be “disappointing” to “only” see the team win 80 games with a roster whose WAR suggests it should win at least 90, but there literally hasn’t been a single season in the past two years when the Nationals reached 90 wins. So stop setting a fictional bar just as an excuse to criticize the manager.

The Martinez critics also just love to point out how the Nationals won 96 and 97 games respectively the two years before he took over in 2016 and 2017 as though that has any relevance to 2018 or 2019. For one thing, the 2018 team was a completely different team than the prior two years, as Dusty Baker never had to deal with the notorious underperformance of noted emergent locker room cancer Juan Soto, and was instead blessed with a veritable platoon of dynamic left fielders.

And for those who still contend a .500 record with such a talented roster is so terrible, ever heard of sample sizes? The baseball season is not nearly long enough to get a decent read on whether a manager is any good in just one year. After all, the 1927 Yankees lost 44 games, and had you taken any of those games in isolation they’d have been on pace for a lower winning percentage than Dave Martinez. Let’s give the guy some time, people. 250 games? How about 10,000 at least to get a decent reading.

This board is also full of playoff dreamers who live in an utter fantasy world. They act like the four playoff teams in six years that the Nationals fielded prior to the Martinez hire actually played against actual opponents to get there. They also claim that just because the Nationals are spending a lot on their roster is some kind of indicator that the team could be “expected” to make the playoffs or something, as though it’s some kind of birthright that the 5th highest paid team in baseball might be expected to be one of the sport’s 10 best teams. Simple math, however, tells us that 10 is bigger than 5. Duh.

Another criticism has to do with the team’s lack of focus on fundamentals or preparation, as though the atrocious bullpen or little league baserunning antics are Martinez’ fault. What do we think, that these players just learned how to pitch under Martinez? Many of them were solid performers, even All Stars and league leaders before they got here. Just because there’s a single common denominator amidst their collective decline (Dave Martinez) doesn’t mean they didn’t all just magically deteriorate on their own.

Martinez’ critics also point to his poor skills managing the team in-game, particularly his obsession with sacrificing like crazy, trading outs for bases in early innings for the sake of single runs at the expense of potential big innings and therefore doom the team later on in games, something evidenced by his atrocious record in close games and his teams’ consistent underperformance relative to their Pythagorean run totals. But it’s a strategy that’s paid off. Even though it’s killed their overall record by decimating their potential to get the kinds of big innings they’d need to win games, the 2018 team massively outperformed the 2017 team in the first inning. Sacrificing for the lone run for the first inning win! If baseball would just get its rules right and decide that only the runs scored in the first inning should count, Martinez’ would be among baseball’s best managers!

Finally, Martinez has been criticized for managing the team with an infantile, childish approach, and for being an introvert who doesn’t carry enough gravitas for a job that’s largely about communication. But he’s literally one guy out of a clubhouse, including the players, that’s over 40 people. 1 out of 40, and he doesn’t even get to play a position. And you’re out blaming him for the team’s underperformance? Fat chance. That’s literally like 2%. And furthermore, communication is not a prerequisite to being a great leader. After all, Calvin Coolidge was notoriously quiet and he was president!

So there you go, Nationals fans. Check and mate. Martinez critics, utterly debunked. Strap in for 77-85 and you better darn enjoy it because unlike Dusty, that’s REAL success. Martinez has literally not choked once in the playoffs the way Dusty did, and it’s a safe bet he never will.

And a damn good one

Offline Scrapple

  • Posts: 706
Re: Debunking the Dave Martinez critics
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2019, 07:40:06 am »
But Dusty won one as a player, which we have established in the other thread is more important.
:hysterical:

Yeah but, we all so established “no credit” if that player won that Championship alongside a Hall of Famer. So through that  technicality Dusty gets “NO CREDIT”. NOPE! Sorry.  :crackup:

YEAH BABY!!! Here come the NATS!!!


 :woop: :panic: :metal: :panic: :woop:

Offline tswphoto

  • Posts: 125
  • Sitting out the wave.
Re: Debunking the Dave Martinez critics
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2019, 11:02:07 am »
Holy crap, I wish my ex wife choked on my cock as hard as you just did on Dave’s.

She must have suddenly realized what a dullard she was fellating.   

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Debunking the Dave Martinez critics
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2019, 02:45:17 pm »
We know there are many on this board who like to claim Dave Martinez has “underperformed” as Nationals manager, but it’s pretty easy to debunk their asinine reasoning and demonstrate that the Martinez era has in fact been fairly successful as things go.

For one thing,[ Martinez is on pace to win at least 70 games for the second straight season. Not only would that be a remarkable accomplishment for a team that hasn’t had a win total in the 70s since 2007, but it would be doubly remarkable as no other Nationals manager has won even a single game while managing the team the last two seasons.
:clap: 

How is Tim Horton's?

Offline phil219

  • Posts: 89
Re: Debunking the Dave Martinez critics
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2019, 02:50:11 pm »
bring back Jim Riggleman

Offline DCFan

  • Posts: 16722
  • What are you dense?
Re: Debunking the Dave Martinez critics
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2019, 07:08:18 pm »
:clap: 

How is Tim Horton's?

Wegmans has their k-cups cheaper than you can get on amazon.