PBS's "Baseball - Tenth Inning" reminded me that Pudge ...

[Sharp]

Meh.  Lifting weights can also make you "something you are not and never were at one point."  Before Strasburg got in shape he was throwing in the low '90s.  Before Nolan Ryan got to the majors I guarantee you he wasn't throwing 100+.  I don't think the issue people have is really with the "performance-enhancing" side of it.  Nor is it really with the illegality of the drugs, or the perceived health risks, or how it affects their children.  If baseball wasn't a sport so enamored with numbers and records and history steroids would have been a relatively minor issue.  But people revere the legends of decades past, and people resent the fact that they felt like the players of today had access to a substance that they could literally just inject into their asses to become superstars.  It seemed to trivialize the accomplishments of men who didn't have that opportunity.  Really all this silliness could have been avoided if people were willing to recognize that major league baseball has had many different eras and they aren't really comparable, but for whatever reason that isn't how things work in baseball.

[Minty Fresh]

You might as well ask if  Jim Abbott had a robotic arm could he pitch from that side. It's silliness.

That's why I rather liked the debate about the sprinter who ran with two artificial legs.  Was it a triumph over tragedy or performance enhancement?  I don't know where I fall on the spectrum exactly, but I don't think he should have been allowed to compete against people who ran on two natural legs.

[Minty Fresh]

If baseball wasn't a sport so enamored with numbers and records and history steroids would have been a relatively minor issue.  But people revere the legends of decades past, and people resent the fact that they felt like the players of today had access to a substance that cothey could literally just inject into their asses to become superstars.  It seemed to trivialize the accomplishments of men who didn't have that opportunity.  Really all this silliness could have been avoided if people were willing to recognize that major league baseball has had many different eras and they aren't really comparable, but for whatever reason that isn't how things work in baseball.

I 100% agree with this and I think it serves as a good argument to legalize HGH and the prescribed use of steroids.

[blue911]

Don't TJ/LASIKs et al take a body that is damaged and return it to a normal state whereas PEDs takes a normal body to a heightened state.

[Sharp]

Don't TJ/LASIKs et al take a body that is damaged and return it to a normal state whereas PEDs takes a normal body to a heightened state.

Depends how you look at it.  TJ surgery replaces your UCL with a stronger, tougher ligament from your leg, so in that sense it's certainly not its "normal" state.  LASIK involves reshaping the patient's eye to more closely resemble the "normal" shape, but something like 75% of Americans need some kind of vision correction so calling that "normal" is a bit of a stretch, especially for that particular patient.  I get what you mean, though.

[Lintyfresh85]

If Lasik is cheating, then why isn't wearing contacts/glasses?

After all, if you're enhancing your vision through non-natural means, isn't that considered cheating?

[HalfSmokes]

I would say LASIK takes a normal eye and perfects it, much like PEDs do for muscles

[HalfSmokes]

If Lasik is cheating, then why isn't wearing contacts/glasses?

After all, if you're enhancing your vision through non-natural means, isn't that considered cheating?

I'm not the one saying PEDs are evil. People like to talk about PEDs being unnatural and thus bad, I'm just asking what the difference is

[Sharp]

I'm not the one saying PEDs are evil. People like to talk about PEDs being unnatural and thus bad, I'm just asking what the difference is

The difference is that it's legal.  Also that good vision is not seen as an advantage but a prerequisite; keeping people with bad vision out would be seen in much the same way as baseball's old policies on the black players are today, as lessening the competition.  You could say "what about unfit players" but baseball has always been one of the few sports where someone with the dimensions of CC Sabathia or Prince Fielder could dominate.  Very few fans view having 2% body fat and 15 more pounds of muscle than a player's frame can support as an important, or even desirable, aspect of baseball.  Of course then the Papi - steroids thing came out and people realized that that's not how it works, but that's how these things go.  What's acceptable is what the fans find acceptable.  Selig was totally down with steroids until he became aware that it was starting to hurt his, and baseball's, reputation, and even then he resisted doing anything about it for as long as he possibly could.

[Minty Fresh]

I'm not the one saying PEDs are evil. People like to talk about PEDs being unnatural and thus bad, I'm just asking what the difference is

I don't view them as "EVIL" but I think PED's are cheating.  And there's something about drugs/taking a pill that seems like cheating whereas a surgery seems more like fixing something that's broken.

[blue911]

Depends how you look at it.  TJ surgery replaces your UCL with a stronger, tougher ligament from your leg, so in that sense it's certainly not its "normal" state.  LASIK involves reshaping the patient's eye to more closely resemble the "normal" shape, but something like 75% of Americans need some kind of vision correction so calling that "normal" is a bit of a stretch, especially for that particular patient.  I get what you mean, though.

It's a tendon that they use in TJ. What a pitcher is getting is a better designed elbow, kind of like the difference between a ballista and a crossbow.

[PANatsFan]

I would say LASIK takes a normal eye and perfects it, much like PEDs do for muscles

There's no very long term studies. I would never get Lasik. Then again, I have 20/15 vision