Author Topic: Nationals Want To Improve Middle Infield  (Read 4850 times)

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Offline UMDNats

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Re: Nationals Want To Improve Middle Infield
« Reply #75 on: November 03, 2009, 04:46:49 pm »
heyman confirming that it is rays-pirates

Offline JMW IV

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Re: Nationals Want To Improve Middle Infield
« Reply #76 on: November 03, 2009, 05:02:34 pm »
Right.  We don't need help at 2nd base.  

 :roll:      :?

If I recall, I said that I doubted that we were the ones trading for Iwamura.

in what language does that translate to "we don't need help at second base"?

Offline sportsfan882

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Re: Nationals Want To Improve Middle Infield
« Reply #77 on: November 03, 2009, 05:10:22 pm »
We need help but why would the Nats be smart enough to make a shrewd move by bringing in a guy like Iwamura?


Offline houston-nat

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Re: Nationals Want To Improve Middle Infield
« Reply #78 on: November 03, 2009, 05:37:23 pm »
Rays get Jesse Chavez for Iwamura

Offline sportsfan882

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Re: Nationals Want To Improve Middle Infield
« Reply #79 on: November 03, 2009, 05:42:19 pm »
Rays get Jesse Chavez for Iwamura
steal for Pitt

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Nationals Want To Improve Middle Infield
« Reply #80 on: November 03, 2009, 06:02:52 pm »
steal for Pitt

The question is if Klej or Clippard would have gotten the deal done . . .

Offline The Chief

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Re: Nationals Want To Improve Middle Infield
« Reply #81 on: November 03, 2009, 06:33:17 pm »
Right.  We don't need help at 2nd base.   

 :roll:      :?

Come now, Tom, that's a red herring :nono:

Offline The Chief

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Re: Nationals Want To Improve Middle Infield
« Reply #82 on: November 03, 2009, 06:33:58 pm »
The question is if Klej or Clippard would have gotten the deal done . . .

I don't know anything about the guy they actually got in the deal but I can't imagine anyone taking Doogie's 3 million dollar contract.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Nationals Want To Improve Middle Infield
« Reply #83 on: November 03, 2009, 07:01:15 pm »
I don't know anything about the guy they actually got in the deal but I can't imagine anyone taking Doogie's 3 million dollar contract.

Yeah it was a salary dump, plain and simple. But Clippard is cheap . . .

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Nationals Want To Improve Middle Infield
« Reply #84 on: January 12, 2010, 01:44:08 pm »
Dug this old chestnut out of the open fire (damn near got my hands roasted) because there has been some discussion at various times about whether we need a quality defensive SS this year when we have Zimmerman right next door.  This Dave Cameron piece argues, I think pretty well, that extra defense does not have diminishing returns in terms.  A run is still a run, whether prevented or scored, in terms of adding to the likelihood of a win.

Quote
Put simply, almost every single ball in play that matters is only catchable by one player. On a line drive to left field, the quality of the defender at second base is completely irrelevant. That the team already has Franklin Gutierrez and Jack Wilson doesn’t matter when the hitter smashes a line drive down the first base line – the only variable on the defensive side is the quality of the first baseman. If he’s lousy, then the play isn’t getting made, regardless of how good his teammates are defensively.

Now, I know there are plays where two defenders converge on the ball, but those balls in play are going to be outs 99.9 percent of the time even if the second guy doesn’t get there. Even the worst defensive teams in baseball turn 65% of their balls in play into outs. Nearly two-thirds of all non-HR contact is fairly routine for the defense, and those plays are going to be outs whether you have Adam Dunn or Endy Chavez playing defense.

The plays that matter, though, where the runs are saved and wins are earned, are on balls that are smoked. Hot shots up the middle, sinking liners in the gap – this is where the difference in defensive ability comes into play, and on nearly all of those types of plays, there is only one guy who has a chance to convert the out. His defensive quality matters, and that’s it.

History has shown this to be true. When you put a good defensive SS next to a good defensive 3B, their individual numbers do not take a significant hit. Ichiro’s UZR did not go down when the Mariners replaced Jeremy Reed with Franklin Gutierrez, despite Death To Flying Things covering more ground than any outfielder in baseball. Adrian Beltre’s UZR didn’t crash when the team went from Yuniesky Betancourt to Ronny Cedeno and then to Jack Wilson. There just aren’t enough plays that matter where two guys both can convert the out for there to be significant diminishing returns in playing quality defenders side by side.

If Desmond is rangy, then I can see how he should have the SS slot and Guz can slide to 2d (apparent Plan A).  My preference would be to start him in Syracuse and for the Nats to bring in a cheap good SS glove who can not stink too much defensively, but frankly that ship sailed by the winter meetings.  I/M/O, DesGuz it is, and if either flops Willie fills in more than we like at 2d.

Offline tomterp

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Re: Nationals Want To Improve Middle Infield
« Reply #85 on: January 12, 2010, 01:55:00 pm »
Interesting, probably generally true.

It does seem that Zimmerman cuts off a fair number of balls (charging in and across the diamond) that might be otherwise played by the SS, though some too late for sure.

Offline Ray D

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Re: Nationals Want To Improve Middle Infield
« Reply #86 on: January 12, 2010, 02:48:50 pm »
Conversely then, would you agree,  that the argument (currently presented on the "other" board) that you cannot put both Guzman and Dunn on the same side of the infield because they are both so bad, is rubbish?   Leave aside the premise that Dunn is bad at first base, which I reject.  That you need at least one good infielder on the right side to compensate for the deficiencies of the other. Personally I don't think it's sound reasoning, even if you do buy the Dunn-is-bad premise which I don't.  

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Nationals Want To Improve Middle Infield
« Reply #87 on: January 12, 2010, 02:49:32 pm »
heyman confirming that it is rays-pirates
so do we have real confirmation yet?

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Nationals Want To Improve Middle Infield
« Reply #88 on: January 12, 2010, 03:05:05 pm »
so do we have real confirmation yet?

It's Heyman, so there's no way I'd trust him 3 months later.