Where is Ryan Zimmerman helping/hurting us more? (2017)

[Slateman]

He hits fine when he's healthy and has his timing.

When is that?

How about meow?

[Natsinpwc]

How about meow?

He hasn't hit well the last few years even when healthy. That's a fact. He has been great this year. We will see if he stays healthy.

[DPMOmaha]

He hasn't hit well the last few years even when healthy. That's a fact. He has been great this year. We will see if he stays healthy.

Maybe he hasn't been fully healthy for several years?

[Natsinpwc]

Maybe he hasn't been fully healthy for several years?

Maybe. Or maybe he has found a special Doctor. Or maybe he just has finally made some adjustments.

[bluestreak]

I wasn't sure Zimmerman was for real until past couple days.

He's always been streaky. So to see him recover from a small slow stretch to do what he is doing this road trip? He is 100% back.

Back? I wasn't following the team then, but was he this good even in 2009?

[spidernat]

I wasn't sure Zimmerman was for real until past couple days.

He's always been streaky. So to see him recover from a small slow stretch to do what he is doing this road trip? He is 100% back.

It helped that he happened to be in the Bay Area.

[mitlen]

Back? I wasn't following the team then, but was he this good even in 2009?

All Star third baseman

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/z/zimmery01-bat.shtml

[bluestreak]

All Star third baseman

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/z/zimmery01-bat.shtml

That's what I'm saying. 2009 was his best year. He was a 7 win player. And from what I can tell he is playing better this year than even back then. But I didn't watch him everyday back then.
From what I can tell, there is no real precedent for this performance.

[mitlen]

That's what I'm saying. 2009 was his best year. He was a 7 win player. And from what I can tell he is playing better this year than even back then. But I didn't watch him everyday back then.
From what I can tell, there is no real precedent for this performance.

My bad.   I thought you were asking about 2009.     My memory is fadin' but I think he's battin' as well this year as any year.     He seems to have a bigger/better presence in the box.

[Natsinpwc]

2009 and 2010 were his best years up until now offensively. OPS near .900. His OPS has been plummeting the last few years. A pitiful .642 last year despite the fact that he played more games (115) than he had since 2013. That's why I don't buy the when he has healthy he has hit. He peaked offensively in 2009-2010. He was healthy enough last year. He had 462 plate appearances. I think he has adjusted his approach. Or found a damn good doctor. Hope he keeps it up.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Until he had the shoulder and lived on cortisone for a year or so, he was an excellent defensive player, too.  Not that Dave Cameron is gospel, but he had him as one of the top 5 trade value guys for a couple of years around then.

[UMDNats]

I have been thinking about this a little bit today: assuming he finishes his career as a National (I guess him playing 1-2 years somewhere else wouldn't change things), and gets to at least 250 home runs (he's at 230), will his #11 be retired by the team?

Things going for him:

- First draft pick of the team
- Authored a lot of "signature" moments in this team's history
- Was the team's first legitimately good player
- 13+ years, 200+ homers, .800+ OPS, was a stud defender until his late-20s due to injury

Things going against him:

- No awards other than 1 GG and 2 SS
- No playoff success
- Numbers are good for a career, not great - obviously not HOF consideration or anything close

These things can all change over the next few years, obviously, but...

[JCA-CrystalCity]

They'll have to come up with some sort of standard for retired numbers.   Premature, yes, but I'll say yes if he hits the numbers you say.  The FotF stuff was the truth until SS and BH.  Very good player on bad teams get honored locally. 

[DPMOmaha]

I have been thinking about this a little bit today: assuming he finishes his career as a National (I guess him playing 1-2 years somewhere else wouldn't change things), and gets to at least 250 home runs (he's at 230), will his #11 be retired by the team?

Things going for him:

- First draft pick of the team
- Authored a lot of "signature" moments in this team's history
- Was the team's first legitimately good player
- 13+ years, 200+ homers, .800+ OPS, was a stud defender until his late-20s due to injury

Things going against him:

- No awards other than 1 GG and 2 SS
- No playoff success
- Numbers are good for a career, not great - obviously not HOF consideration or anything close

These things can all change over the next few years, obviously, but...

Yes, and it should be, even if this were for some reason to be his last season. The rational for retiring a number can be unique to the orgainzation and for what he represents to DC baseball, he should go down as a legend and the organization should recognize that, even if he's not an all time great on the MLB level, he is here and in the current DC baseball era. It's not even a question to me.

[imref]

Yes, and it should be, even if this were for some reason to be his last season. The rational for retiring a number can be unique to the orgainzation and for what he represents to DC baseball, he should go down as a legend and the organization should recognize that, even if he's not an all time great on the MLB level, he is here and in the current DC baseball era. It's not even a question to me.

Completely agree.

[varoadking]

I have been thinking about this a little bit today: assuming he finishes his career as a National (I guess him playing 1-2 years somewhere else wouldn't change things), and gets to at least 250 home runs (he's at 230), will his #11 be retired by the team?

Things going for him:

- First draft pick of the team
- Authored a lot of "signature" moments in this team's history
- Was the team's first legitimately good player
- 13+ years, 200+ homers, .800+ OPS, was a stud defender until his late-20s due to injury

Things going against him:

- No awards other than 1 GG and 2 SS
- No playoff success
- Numbers are good for a career, not great - obviously not HOF consideration or anything close

These things can all change over the next few years, obviously, but...

Likely...and it's a bit odd in one respect, as fans love him though he seemingly has no love for the fans. 

Hard for me to think of a similar player/fan relationship...maybe Bill Russell, though his was more a disdain than an indifference, and only Celtic fans loved him...not all Bostonians.  Of course, he is one of the GOAT, so there is that too...

[Smithian]

Back? I wasn't following the team then, but was he this good even in 2009?

If he keeps up the hitting, yes, he is better than 2009.

But 2009 and 2010 Ryan Zimmerman was ridiculously good. He won a couple Silver Sluggers but his defense was the main story. He won the Gold Glove in 2009 and should have won it in 2010. Think about that, two years in a row there was an argument he was not only the best hitter but the best glove in the NL at third.

[Smithian]

Yes, and it should be, even if this were for some reason to be his last season. The rational for retiring a number can be unique to the orgainzation and for what he represents to DC baseball, he should go down as a legend and the organization should recognize that, even if he's not an all time great on the MLB level, he is here and in the current DC baseball era. It's not even a question to me.

Zim is and will always be my favorite Nat. His number retirement is already an open and shut case.

[aspenbubba]

This maybe premature and I certainly don't want to jinx him but he is currently the leader in the race for the "Triple Crown". That should garner him a lot of attention on the national stage. Do we break this off into a separate thread or wait until after the ASB?

[Smithian]

This maybe premature and I certainly don't want to jinx him but he is currently the leader in the race for the "Triple Crown". That should garner him a lot of attention on the national stage. Do we break this off into a separate thread or wait until after the ASB?

Wait until at least ASB.

Look at Murphy. He started last season hitting .400 for a while then cooled off from historic to simply very, very good.

[MarquisDeSade]

He'll fall off of a cliff and miss 40 games soon enough.

[mitlen]

Likely...and it's a bit odd in one respect, as fans love him though he seemingly has no love for the fans. 

Hard for me to think of a similar player/fan relationship...maybe Bill Russell, though his was more a disdain than an indifference, and only Celtic fans loved him...not all Bostonians.  Of course, he is one of the GOAT, so there is that too...

Roberto Clemente and Pittsburgh fans (especially during his early playing years) though I do think much of that was cultural chasms.     

[aspenbubba]

Likely...and it's a bit odd in one respect, as fans love him though he seemingly has no love for the fans. 

I'm not disagreeing with you but I don't necessarily see it. Please cite examples. My observation is he is basically a quiet introspective person on the field and in the club house. He is not a Michael Morse who had a large personality and relished the attention and responded in kind. He is intelligent, educated and thoughtful. He is a mensch and avoids the limelight. I guess I am a fanboy.

[Smithian]

I'm not disagreeing with you but I don't necessarily see it. Please cite examples. My observation is he is basically a quiet introspective person on the field and in the club house. He is not a Michael Morse who had a large personality and relished the attention and responded in kind. He is intelligent, educated and thoughtful. He is a mensch and avoids the limelight. I guess I am a fanboy.

Zimmerman hosts a well known charity and when given interviews is pretty funny.

The first half of his career no one cared enough about the Nats to talk to him then the second half everyone was too busy talking to Strasburg and Harper.

I still laugh remembering his interview with MLB Network the day of Strasburg debut. "Zim, we thought this was your team?" then him laughing and shrugging.

[MarquisDeSade]

I'm not disagreeing with you but I don't necessarily see it. Please cite examples. My observation is he is basically a quiet introspective person on the field and in the club house. He is not a Michael Morse who had a large personality and relished the attention and responded in kind. He is intelligent, educated and thoughtful. He is a mensch and avoids the limelight. I guess I am a fanboy.

He's a pretty private person and really doesn't seem to court the spotlight or even really want to be thrust into it (see his awkward Geico commercials for example).  That said, at the signing I went to with him he was insanely nice and appreciative and strikes me as the kind of guy that's calm in chaos and doesn't resonate at high frequencies even when things are out of control.  He's not a rah rah mingle with the fans type guy like Desmond or Morse and seems like about who you'd find working for Booz, Allen, and Hamilton as a "management consultant" if he weren't playing baseball. 

Outside of Dave Kingman, Carl Everett, Vince "Firecracker" Coleman, and Sidney Ponson are there really that many MLB that have outright not liked their fans/attention?