Austin Voth - Blown away by all the data

[Natsinpwc]

Were Seth Romero and Mason Denaburg development problems or just bad draft picks?  Seems the latter to me.  They were back to back first round picks in 2017/18 who should be contributing now.  Jury still out on Rutledge and Cavalli who were the next two years.

[Natsinpwc]

Speaking of Giolito he's sporting a nice 4.92 ERA and 80 ERA+ this year. Won the trade!

Corbin is jealous. 

[Elvir Ovcina]

Speaking of Giolito he's sporting a nice 4.92 ERA and 80 ERA+ this year. Won the trade!

Trouble with trading multiple dudes is that multiple dudes can turn out decent.  Giolito is barely above replacement level, but Lopez has a 2.72 ERA in 46 bullpen innings.  The Sox have already gotten ~15 WAR from that trade, which...well, Eaton's contributions are best described as a couple hits and a lot of truck driving.  They also traded Dunning for Lance Lynn, and if we ignore his third place Cy Young year last year, he can also be used as justification for the EATENANDWONTHETRADEVROOOOOM argument.

Were Seth Romero and Mason Denaburg development problems or just bad draft picks?  Seems the latter to me.  They were back to back first round picks in 2017/18 who should be contributing now.  Jury still out on Rutledge and Cavalli who were the next two years.

Denaburg just got hurt a lot.  The argument against drafting him is that drafting high school pitchers is usually dumb, and a lot of that is that they get hurt.  Romero had a lot of off field crap going on, and he was a bad pick even without the injuries.

[catocony]

The Romero pick is the worst Round 1 dud for Rizzo in his whole time here.  The guy was a personality nightmare in college, then when he first hit the minors here.  Wasn't he basically shut down and exiled from the minor league complex for a while for basically being an a-hole? 

[imref]

The Romero pick is the worst Round 1 dud for Rizzo in his whole time here.  The guy was a personality nightmare in college, then when he first hit the minors here.  Wasn't he basically shut down and exiled from the minor league complex for a while for basically being an a-hole? 

yep, though he was taken 25th. We could have had Drew Rasmussen instead.

[Natsinpwc]

Nats first round pitchers since Strasburg.

2011. Alex Mayer. Traded and never any good.
2012. Giolito. Traded
2014. Fedde. Back end starter.
2016. Dunning. Traded
2017. Romero. Bust
2018  Denaburg. Injured. Bust
2019.  Rutledge.  Injured. Jury still out.
2020.  Cavalli.  Looks like he will at least be Fedde and hopefully much more.

Just missed on too many considering they traded two of them.

[Elvir Ovcina]

Nats first round pitchers since Strasburg.

2011. Alex Mayer. Traded and never any good.
2012. Giolito. Traded
2014. Fedde. Back end starter.
2016. Dunning. Traded
2017. Romero. Bust
2018  Denaburg. Injured. Bust
2019.  Rutledge.  Injured. Jury still out.
2020.  Cavalli.  Looks like he will at least be Fedde and hopefully much more.

Just missed on too many considering they traded two of them.

Meyer was pretty good with the Angels until he had a career-ending injury.  Not a lot of innings, but he was better than league average.  Way better than Fedde, in any event.

[imref]

I saw Meyer pitch once in Potomac, very tall and dominated in the one game I saw. We did get Denard Span for him.

Dunning has been a decent #4/5. 4.27 career ERA, 1.372 WHIP, 56 starts.

[Natsinpwc]

Meyer was pretty good with the Angels until he had a career-ending injury.  Not a lot of innings, but he was better than league average.  Way better than Fedde, in any event.

Had forgotten Meyer was with the Angels.

[Slateman]

https://twitter.com/dougherty_jesse/status/1563982548753072134?s=20&t=laRiO3EVkL_9FzvEz1sS6w

At risk of becoming a broken record — and recognizing the Nationals did win this afternoon — Austin Voth is through six scoreless against the Astros in Houston and has allowed one hit.

[imref]

Voth takes the loss after allowing one base runner in the seventh.

[Kevrock]

Ha, what a scrub

[Count Walewski]

I was trying to find Shohei Ohtani in a list of pitchers by WAR the other day and I saw Dane Dunning on page 1 or 2 of the list. He's having a definitely OK season in Texas.

[Senatorswin]

I was trying to find Shohei Ohtani in a list of pitchers by WAR the other day and I saw Dane Dunning on page 1 or 2 of the list. He's having a definitely OK season in Texas.

When I see something like this I think a lot of people on here would agree with you and also I must be so old school. The average ERA for pitchers today is 3.97. Dunnings record is 3-6 with a 4.19 ERA. While I agree it's not disastrous or even really bad, I don't seem to see the positive vibe that so many others have. I keep hearing Herm Edwards words in my head "you play to win the game".

[Natsinpwc]

When I see something like this I think a lot of people on here would agree with you and also I must be so old school. The average ERA for pitchers today is 3.97. Dunnings record is 3-6 with a 4.19 ERA. While I agree it's not disastrous or even really bad, I don't seem to see the positive vibe that so many others have. I keep hearing Herm Edwards words in my head "you play to win the game".

He’s 20th in the AL in ERA.  Do the math. That’s much better than average.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/player/_/view/pitching/players/7

[Senatorswin]

He’s 20th in the AL in ERA.  Do the math. That’s much better than average.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/player/_/view/pitching/players/7

He's 20th and the 25th pitcher's ERA is 5.28. Is that better than average? To me he's just a guy giving you innings. 3-6.

[Natsinpwc]

He's 20th and the 25th pitcher's ERA is 5.28. Is that better than average? To me he's just a guy giving you innings. 3-6.

There are 15 teams in the AL. He is a number 2 starter on most teams. If the Nats had five guys in the rotation this year they would be close to a .500 team. 

[Senatorswin]

There are 15 teams in the AL. He is a number 2 starter on most teams. If the Nats had five guys in the rotation this year they would be close to a .500 team.

Whaaat? Paolo is 0-6 with an ERA OF 4.35. That's not much different from 3-6 with a 4.19.

[Slateman]

Whaaat? Paolo is 0-6 with an ERA OF 4.35. That's not much different from 3-6 with a 4.19.

As a starter, Espino has an ERA of 5.32. Dunning would be this team's best starter.

Having a guy like Dunning allows you to post a guy like Espino to the pen, where he rocks a 2.03 ERA.

[Natsinpwc]

As a starter, Espino has an ERA of 5.32. Dunning would be this team's best starter.

Having a guy like Dunning allows you to post a guy like Espino to the pen, where he rocks a 2.03 ERA.

Also Dunning is going 5.1 innings per start. Espino is not.

[Senatorswin]

Also Dunning is going 5.1 innings per start. Espino is not.

I agree Dunning could be at or near the top of our rotation but that doesn't mean much. On most teams a guy who is 3-6 record with a 4.19 ERA with a WHIP of 1.372 who's given up 127 hits and 50 walks in 129 innings is just an innings eater. He's not terrible but he's not good either.

[Natsinpwc]

I agree Dunning could be at or near the top of our rotation but that doesn't mean much. On most teams a guy who is 3-6 record with a 4.19 ERA with a WHIP of 1.372 who's given up 127 hits and 50 walks in 129 innings is just an innings eater. He's not terrible but he's not good either.

You are not paying attention. He is 20th in the AL in ERA. Which means there are only 19 starters better than him in that stat. There are 15 teams in the league. So rotations have 75 starters at any given time. He is a #2 starter on most teams this year. Someone who can go 5 innings and have an ERA under 4.50 is something nowadays that you treasure and hold onto. This is not 1968. And speaking of that no one pays attention to wins and losses for pitchers anymore. I mean DeGrom won a Cy Young award with a 10-9 record one year. What’s the teams record when he starts?  Willing to venture a guess it’s better than the teams overall record.

[imref]

Keep in mind our middle infield defense has been awful most of this season.

[Five Banners]

Keep in mind our middle infield defense has been awful most of this season.

But they make up for it with their base running

[Senatorswin]

You are not paying attention. He is 20th in the AL in ERA. Which means there are only 19 starters better than him in that stat. There are 15 teams in the league. So rotations have 75 starters at any given time. He is a #2 starter on most teams this year. Someone who can go 5 innings and have an ERA under 4.50 is something nowadays that you treasure and hold onto. This is not 1968. And speaking of that no one pays attention to wins and losses for pitchers anymore. I mean DeGrom won a Cy Young award with a 10-9 record one year. What’s the teams record when he starts?  Willing to venture a guess it’s better than the teams overall record.

Two things. The Rangers record this year when Dane Dunning starts is 8 wins 16 losses. The Rangers record is 58-69. The team has a better winning percentage when he doesn't start. By your logic the 25th ERA is 5.28 and he would be the number two starter on most teams. Just not true.