Author Topic: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond  (Read 116177 times)

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Offline Ray D

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #2700: October 19, 2018, 03:31:23 PM »
The Lerners may decide to cut payroll and retool, and they may decide to sign Harper, but they won't decide to do BOTH.
The Lerners don't think like you and I do. That's not to say I know how they think but  you and I want a winner;  I'm not too sure that that is a priority with them.  And I'm not saying they are cheap.  But they are bottom line guys.  Bottom line as in dollars, not success on the field.  They may have decided that bottom line is greater with Harper and a mediocre team than without Harper and an winning team.  And they may be right. I don't believe it, but it does seem like some people here do.

Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #2701: October 19, 2018, 03:46:54 PM »
The Lerners don't think like you and I do. That's not to say I know how they think but  you and I want a winner;  I'm not too sure that that is a priority with them.  And I'm not saying they are cheap.  But they are bottom line guys.  Bottom line as in dollars, not success on the field.  They may have decided that bottom line is greater with Harper and a mediocre team than without Harper and an winning team.  And they may be right. I don't believe it, but it does seem like some people here do.

What about Harper AND a winning team?  That is the best bottomline. 

One of the keys to having a complete team is having some really good players in their first few years of service time, because they are cheap.  We have that with Soto and Turner.  Hopefully Robles has his own breakout as well. 

I don't worry too much about filling 2B.  There are a lot of options on the market and Kieboom could be ready at some point.  We've had awful production at catcher for 2 years, so we can only improve there. 

Filling out a quality bullpen doesn't have to be expensive.  Bullpen guys are so up and down year to year...sometimes it's just plain luck.  Holland was great in 2017, awful for the Cardinals this year, great for us to close the year as minor leage free agent pick up, now is once again a big ticket free agent. 

The most challenging pickup is going to be a #2 or #3 starter type. 

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #2702: October 19, 2018, 04:48:31 PM »
What about Harper AND a winning team?  That is the best bottomline. 

One of the keys to having a complete team is having some really good players in their first few years of service time, because they are cheap.  We have that with Soto and Turner.  Hopefully Robles has his own breakout as well. 

Right, I mean its not like this payroll is full of albatross contracts. There's Zimmerman, but otherwise I think most teams in the league would be happy having Scherzer, Strasburg, Rendon, and possibly Harper on market-rate deals, with guys like Turner, Soto, Robles on or at league minimum.

If they don't want to pay Harper, that's fine - I'm happy to move on. But this isn't a Phillies situation where the roster was so full of deadweight that you couldn't be competitive even at or near the tax threshold. We have a bunch of expensive, productive players.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #2703: October 19, 2018, 05:26:03 PM »
Right, I mean its not like this payroll is full of albatross contracts. There's Zimmerman, but otherwise I think most teams in the league would be happy having Scherzer, Strasburg, Rendon, and possibly Harper on market-rate deals, with guys like Turner, Soto, Robles on or at league minimum.

If they don't want to pay Harper, that's fine - I'm happy to move on. But this isn't a Phillies situation where the roster was so full of deadweight that you couldn't be competitive even at or near the tax threshold. We have a bunch of expensive, productive players.

That's  what's so frustrating.  Even Zimmerman's contract is not that bad.  In 2018 he produced 1.3 WAR for $14 million.  At the going rate of approximately $8 million per win, that's actually not far underwater.  Granted, he'll make $20 million in 2019 counting salary and buyout, but even so, his 2017 season (or even a healthier version of 2018) would come pretty close to justifying that. 

I actually think Strasburg's contract is significantly worse than Zimmerman's at this point, but the big payroll problem is that the team has zero cheap, effective starting pitchers.  Roark, for all his flaws, is going to get a lot of money in arbitration - somewhere in the $8-10 million range, most likely.  But when you are faced with that situation, you as the ownership group cannot simply refuse to face the facts.  You have three starting pitchers, one of whom is a walking sicknote and one of whom is in his last arb year.  You otherwise have the team to win a lot of games, or at least close enough to one - even average players at 2B and C create a good team in terms of position players, Harper or no Harper. 

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #2704: October 19, 2018, 07:43:43 PM »
That's  what's so frustrating.  Even Zimmerman's contract is not that bad.  In 2018 he produced 1.3 WAR for $14 million.  At the going rate of approximately $8 million per win, that's actually not far underwater.  Granted, he'll make $20 million in 2019 counting salary and buyout, but even so, his 2017 season (or even a healthier version of 2018) would come pretty close to justifying that.

Four bWAR in five years at $14 million a year plus an $18 mil year to go is a really terrible contract for the team. We could have had double the production for less than half the price. At least Zim has Otto Porter in town to take over the title of worst active DC sports contract.

Online Slateman

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Online imref

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #2706: October 24, 2018, 10:03:36 PM »

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #2707: October 24, 2018, 10:33:54 PM »
I read that as nothing more than speculation.

Right, I heard this on the radio this morning so I looked it up and a writer in Chicago speculated on the starting price and some blogs posted those numbers as though they are coming from Harper's agent. Nothing wrong with the original article, but the worst kind of clickbait from the blogs who misrepresented the source.

Online Slateman

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #2708: October 24, 2018, 10:42:04 PM »
You're fools if you dont think this is gospel. The dude flat out told people not to sell him short at 400 million

Offline Nick the Pig

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #2709: October 31, 2018, 05:49:36 PM »
I've never been convinced that there is a disqualifying reason lefties cannot play short or third

Third, I can deal with.  But a leftie SS fielding a ball in the gap and throwing to first ?  That's the very definition of awkward...