Posey, Ramos, Fangraphs and pitch framing

[comish4lif]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-washington-nationals-vs-vic-carapazza/#comment-4758305

Mostly the article discusses the consistency/inconsstency of Carapozza's strike zone.

But what caught my eye was the side by side GIF comparison of Ramos and Posey on similar pitches:
- Posey is nice and quiet.
- Ramos is dropping his glove as the ball is released and brings it up to catch it, Ramos drops his knee and bounces his head.

Looking at Ramos drop his left knee on those pitches - Minty (can we tag WNFF users in our posts) - I've always thought as a catcher that dropping your knee tells the ump it was lower than you expected....

[wpa2629]

ugh

the fact that the placement of a catcher's knees is more important than freaking pitch location boils my blood.

Just get electronic balls and strikes already - enough of this crap -

But not to derail this thread and get on that road again ...  that doesn't change the fact that Posey and Ramos catch differently and that it's had an impact - so to that extent, carry on

[Baseball is Life]

I love it when catchers are lauded for their ability to fool the umpire.

And I love it when the MLBN commentators criticized the Nats for their inability to handle bad calls, as opposed to actually criticizing the bad calls themselves.

[zimm_da_kid]

all those borderline pitches during the panic walk were strikes before that ab and after that ab, just not during the ab.  freaking bullcrap

[Minty Fresh]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-washington-nationals-vs-vic-carapazza/#comment-4758305

Mostly the article discusses the consistency/inconsstency of Carapozza's strike zone.

But what caught my eye was the side by side GIF comparison of Ramos and Posey on similar pitches:
- Posey is nice and quiet.
- Ramos is dropping his glove as the ball is released and brings it up to catch it, Ramos drops his knee and bounces his head.

Looking at Ramos drop his left knee on those pitches - Minty (can we tag WNFF users in our posts) - I've always thought as a catcher that dropping your knee tells the ump it was lower than you expected....

I've also been told by numerous umpires at varying levels that it helps a lot if a catcher does NOT extend his hand towards the plate, instead receive the ball with elbow bent and closer to the catcher's body.  This allows the umpire to see more of the strikezone and doesn't make it look like the catcher is reaching for a pitch.  The tradeoff is a split second in attempting to throw out runners because you have more ground to cover when your arm is placed in that position.

And I agree 100% with the "quiet" nature of Posey vs. a catcher with more movement.  Umpires can get distracted by catchers flailing around.  As a receiver, I try to make sure that any movement my mitt makes is toward the strikezone - it makes it look like I wanted a pitch off the plate and the pitcher missed for a strike rather than the other way around. 

There's a great deal of "gamesmanship" between catchers and umpires than most folks realize.

[whytev]

I've also been told by numerous umpires at varying levels that it helps a lot if a catcher does NOT extend his hand towards the plate, instead receive the ball with elbow bent and closer to the catcher's body.  This allows the umpire to see more of the strikezone and doesn't make it look like the catcher is reaching for a pitch.  The tradeoff is a split second in attempting to throw out runners because you have more ground to cover when your arm is placed in that position.

And I agree 100% with the "quiet" nature of Posey vs. a catcher with more movement.  Umpires can get distracted by catchers flailing around.  As a receiver, I try to make sure that any movement my mitt makes is toward the strikezone - it makes it look like I wanted a pitch off the plate and the pitcher missed for a strike rather than the other way around. 

There's a great deal of "gamesmanship" between catchers and umpires than most folks realize.

I'm a fan of the Buffalo but does Lobaton make the difference in a game like that?

[Minty Fresh]

I'm a fan of the Buffalo but does Lobaton make the difference in a game like that?

If you believe that the pitches in the AB in question are close enough to be called either way, it can make a difference.

I can only affirm that I BELIEVE it makes a difference but you really can't quantify it.  Commish linked a great, video-backed example of the difference between a receiver of Posey's talent and of Ramos's talent.  However, it's still a belief and the pitches IMO are still off the plate.

[HalfSmokes]

I love it when catchers are lauded for their ability to fool the umpire.

And I love it when the MLBN commentators criticized the Nats for their inability to handle bad calls, as opposed to actually criticizing the bad calls themselves.

how about having a pitcher capable of framing? Suzuki was a disaster in 2012 and Ramos isn't much better

[Kurt Studzuki]

how about having a pitcher capable of framing? Suzuki was a disaster in 2012 and Ramos isn't much better

 

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Lobaton is supposed to be a good framer. Suzuki and Ramos are horrible. Lobaton learned for Jose Molina, who is supposed to be consistently one of the best.

[Slateman]

I've said for a while that Ramos is pretty mediocre behind the plate.  Defensively, Lobaton is superior.

[Jordanz Meatballz]

Lobaton is supposed to be a good framer. Suzuki and Ramos are horrible. Lobaton learned for Jose Molina, who is supposed to be consistently one of the best.

When I looked up the stats late in the season Ramos was slightly negative and Lobaton slightly positive on framing. Buster Posey is one of the tops in baseball I believe.