Author Topic: The "Stephen Strasburg is not an Ace" Thread  (Read 18552 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Baseball is Life

  • Posts: 20393
  • Proud member of the Sunshine Squad.
ESPN’s Curt Schilling says Stephen Strasburg should be 100,000 times better


That's nice.

Offline Mathguy

  • Posts: 9162
  • Floyd - Truely Man's best Friend
    • Outer Banks Beach House
Strasburg has been put on the 15 day disabled list.  Taylor Jordan has been called up.  But why not bring Ross back ???

Offline whytev

  • Posts: 8768
Strasburg has been put on the 15 day disabled list.  Taylor Jordan has been called up.  But why not bring Ross back ???

5th starter not needed right now.

Offline Ray D

  • Posts: 10073
Taylor Jordan.  What has he ever done that would make anyone think he is major league quality.  I'm obviously missing something, so someone please tell me.

Offline shoeshineboy

  • Posts: 7946
  • Walks Kill!! Walks Kill! Walks Kill!!!!
Agree with Schilling. I expected Stras to look good against the Phillies. They suck, and the weather was moderate. I wish I could have bet that Strasburg wouldn't make it through five against the Giants, because I knew it would be hot and humid and he would either melt or develop a physical issue. It is sad. The stuff is amazing, but it seems like they should have dealt him to San Diego a while ago.

Offline Matugi

  • Posts: 3494
Agree with Schilling. I expected Stras to look good against the Phillies. They suck, and the weather was moderate. I wish I could have bet that Strasburg wouldn't make it through five against the Giants, because I knew it would be hot and humid and he would either melt or develop a physical issue. It is sad. The stuff is amazing, but it seems like they should have dealt him to San Diego a while ago.

Because heat and humidity have to do with an oblique strain that sends a player to the DL.  K.

Offline blue911

  • Posts: 18490
Agree with Schilling. I expected Stras to look good against the Phillies. They suck, and the weather was moderate. I wish I could have bet that Strasburg wouldn't make it through five against the Giants, because I knew it would be hot and humid and he would either melt or develop a physical issue. It is sad. The stuff is amazing, but it seems like they should have dealt him to San Diego a while ago.

And a rain delay to start the game.

Offline shoeshineboy

  • Posts: 7946
  • Walks Kill!! Walks Kill! Walks Kill!!!!
Not what I said, just that I expected something to go wrong with him given the lack of perfect conditions. Who knows with him. It is always something. Any level of discomfort with a pitcher can throw off mechanics and that is what leads to injury. That is why Scherzer, who works on endurance exercise explicitly and knows his body well didn't want to pitch when he had the issue with his finger, because he knew it would lead to mechanics issues that would risk injury. From the mound to the heat to any other nagging bumps and bruises, Stras has run into issues with altering mechanics and tweaking something. It is not out of bounds to speculate that the humidity he hates wears him down and risks problems.

Offline Matugi

  • Posts: 3494
Not what I said, just that I expected something to go wrong with him given the lack of perfect conditions. Who knows with him. It is always something. Any level of discomfort with a pitcher can throw off mechanics and that is what leads to injury. That is why Scherzer, who works on endurance exercise explicitly and knows his body well didn't want to pitch when he had the issue with his finger, because he knew it would lead to mechanics issues that would risk injury. From the mound to the heat to any other nagging bumps and bruises, Stras has run into issues with altering mechanics and tweaking something. It is not out of bounds to speculate that the humidity he hates wears him down and risks problems.

It's completely ludicrous.  You're using a pitcher that actually had an injury and couldn't throw and trying to equate that with Strasburg being a "wuss" due to the weather.

Offline Ray D

  • Posts: 10073
It's completely ludicrous.  You're using a pitcher that actually had an injury and couldn't throw and trying to equate that with Strasburg being a "wuss" due to the weather.
He wasn't "equating" he was "contrasting".  Seems like a legitimate contrast.

Offline tomterp

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 33794
  • Hell yes!
I'm pretty sure that Stras has a real injury.

Offline Matugi

  • Posts: 3494
He wasn't "equating" he was "contrasting".  Seems like a legitimate contrast.

It's not.

Offline Ray D

  • Posts: 10073
I'm pretty sure that Stras has a real injury.
As opposed to what, he's faking it?  I Nobody seriously believes that.  The theory advanced is that his injuries are the result of altered mechanics, and the altered mechanics are the result of discomfort, caused by heat, humidity, cold, mound conditions, icy hot on his private parts, and so on - and that he should toughen up and not let these conditions affect him.  It's not my theory, but it makes sense.

Offline shoeshineboy

  • Posts: 7946
  • Walks Kill!! Walks Kill! Walks Kill!!!!
And I am not even going so far in this instance to call him a wuss or say he should toughen up. My original point was simply that I expected him to need to be pulled early for some reason, primarily due to the heat and humidity. In this case he ended up getting pulled for an injury. It just so happens that it occurred when I expected him to xome out early anyway. Whether or not the humidity had any correlation is a completely separate matter. Arguably not. He has had enough ongoing issues that anything could have gotten exacerbated. Ppint is that the longer strong outings have been the exception not the rule and that less than ideal circumstances tend to impact him adversely moreso that other pitchers. That seems to have been the story of his career, not just this season. If someone wants to label that as wimpy or brittle, it doesn't matter to me. That's irrelevant. Bottom line is that is who he is. Guy has dominant stuff, and while he has had his share of physical setbacks, he hasn't really exhibited the dominant performances that would be expected a la Verlander, Ryan, etc. He's that good. If he  can stay healthy and continue to learn to putch, he could end up fulfilling the promise. But to date, he hasn't and that is  why Schilling is right. Has he had quality starts, sure. And at times he has looked Brilliant. But we aren't talking Roark sruff. We are talking off the charts stuff that should result in more 7+, 8+ inning starts and complete games than early exits due to lack of comfort.

Offline Baseball is Life

  • Posts: 20393
  • Proud member of the Sunshine Squad.
As opposed to what, he's faking it?  I Nobody seriously believes that.  The theory advanced is that his injuries are the result of altered mechanics, and the altered mechanics are the result of discomfort, caused by heat, humidity, cold, mound conditions, icy hot on his private parts, and so on - and that he should toughen up and not let these conditions affect him.  It's not my theory, but it makes sense.

Yes, some people believe he was faking his injuries, especially the neck injury a while ago. If you don't believe me, go to twitter.

The whole thing with the fan's dislike of Stras is the oddest thing I've ever encountered in my life as a sports fan. Fans had such high expectations that anything less than Superman-like performance--and, heaven forbid, injury--makes people foam at the mouth. The whole orchid thing is incredibly mean spirited and is the nasty's fan's way of getting back at him for not living up their expectations. It's so odd.

Offline shoeshineboy

  • Posts: 7946
  • Walks Kill!! Walks Kill! Walks Kill!!!!
Yes, some people believe he was faking his injuries, especially the neck injury a while ago. If you don't believe me, go to twitter.

The whole thing with the fan's dislike of Stras is the oddest thing I've ever encountered in my life as a sports fan. Fans had such high expectations that anything less than Superman-like performance--and, heaven forbid, injury--makes people foam at the mouth. The whole orchid thing is incredibly mean spirited and is the nasty's fan's way of getting back at him for not living up their expectations. It's so odd.

Why does this have to be labeled as dislike or being mean spirited? You can root for a guy and still be unemotionally objective about his actual performance and tendencies. Curt Schilling didn't make mean spirited comments or express any personal dislike. He was simply pointing out the obvious that a pitcher with his type of once in a generation type stuff should have been expected to manifest better and more consistent results by now. That's reasonable and objective. Being a fan of the team and the player doesn't negate the ability to make similar assessments.

Offline Baseball is Life

  • Posts: 20393
  • Proud member of the Sunshine Squad.
Why does this have to be labeled as dislike or being mean spirited? You can root for a guy and still be unemotionally objective about his actual performance and tendencies. Curt Schilling didn't make mean spirited comments or express any personal dislike. He was simply pointing out the obvious that a pitcher with his type of once in a generation type stuff should have been expected to manifest better and more consistent results by now. That's reasonable and objective. Being a fan of the team and the player doesn't negate the ability to make similar assessments.

Calling him names like orchid (and worse) is childish and mean spirited. People can criticize him all day long...no one would argue that. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I think we can all agree he hasn't lived up the hype. But to attack him personnally bu questioning his integrity (faking injuries) and his toughness based on perceptions of his body language is inane and just shows the lunacy of sports fans.

Offline shoeshineboy

  • Posts: 7946
  • Walks Kill!! Walks Kill! Walks Kill!!!!
Calling him names like orchid (and worse) is childish and mean spirited. People can criticize him all day long...no one would argue that. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I think we can all agree he hasn't lived up the hype. But to attack him personnally bu questioning his integrity (faking injuries) and his toughness based on perceptions of his body language is inane and just shows the lunacy of sports fans.

Ok, if you are referring to the nonsense on the Twittersphere fine. But in terms of fans on this forum pointing out specific things, from what I can tell it is warranted.

Offline Baseball is Life

  • Posts: 20393
  • Proud member of the Sunshine Squad.
Ok, if you are referring to the nonsense on the Twittersphere fine. But in terms of fans on this forum pointing out specific things, from what I can tell it is warranted.

Most people on this forum have legit criticisms but more than a few trolls on here do call him childish names, question his integrity, etc.

Offline Ray D

  • Posts: 10073
What is an orchid?   (I know that my wife loves them, so how bad can it be?)

Online Slateman

  • Posts: 63440
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX
Taylor Jordan.  What has he ever done that would make anyone think he is major league quality.  I'm obviously missing something, so someone please tell me.

3.72 FIP in 88 innings

Offline Ray D

  • Posts: 10073
3.72 FIP in 88 innings
Is that supposed to be good?  FIP is supposed to be analogous to ERA.  3.72 is not a good ERA.

Offline Smithian

  • Posts: 11578
  • Sunshine Squad 2024
Is that supposed to be good?  FIP is supposed to be analogous to ERA.  3.72 is not a good ERA.
The National League average ERA is 3.80. Taylor Jordan is profiling as a back of the rotation starter or a long relief guy. AKA, the fabled "6th Starter".

If our fifth starter long relief guy has a better ERA than the NL average, I'll be pretty happy.

Offline shoeshineboy

  • Posts: 7946
  • Walks Kill!! Walks Kill! Walks Kill!!!!
Taylor Jordan looks marginal at best. I assume he is on the shuttle simply to provide a depth arm in the pen. I don't see him ever cracking the rotation beyond a spot start, and figure other options in the system will be used when more mature mext season. They won't butn options and start the clock on any of those guys over Jordan. They may get looks in September when it doesn't count against them.

Online Slateman

  • Posts: 63440
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX
The National League average ERA is 3.80. Taylor Jordan is profiling as a back of the rotation starter or a long relief guy. AKA, the fabled "6th Starter".

If our fifth starter long relief guy has a better ERA than the NL average, I'll be pretty happy.

Exactly. A lot of teams would be throwing Taylor as their 4/5 starter. Some of them are even playoff teams.