The Orioles (2023)

[welch]

The Orioles need to get out of Washington's baseball territory. The Old Senators allowed Hoffberger to move the Browns to a minor league city near Washington, a city famous only for the Baltimore Chop. Instead, the new Baltimore team declared that The District was part of Baltimore. The Angelos team should leave. Go back to St Louis, a real baseball town.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

I/M/O, at this point, OPACY is a "classic" ballpark, more in the lines of Wrigley and Fenway, Chavez Ravine, and Kaufman in KC. You go there not expecting it to have the refinements that PNC or Oracle or even Citifield have. It was groundbreaking, it is pretty in itself, but there's tons to quibble about and it could use some sprucing up. You go there for the experience, but other parks are probably better to watch a game at or to have season tickets to. And Boogs still is the best ballpark food that's feels like ballpark food and not attempting for Michelin stars.

[blue911]

Totally agree.  I do like Boog's though - horseradish!

Ummm… pit beef

[Senatorswin]

Eight of us went to the game today against the Astros. I was surprised when we got to our seats and they faced the center field bullpens. I guess I had never sat over there before. Who designs a stadium where the seats face directly towards beyond the center field wall. Good game though.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Jean Marie Smith at HOK was the main architect. She also did Petco and the modernization of Fenway

[Natsinpwc]

Eight of us went to the game today against the Astros. I was surprised when we got to our seats and they faced the center field bullpens. I guess I had never sat over there before. Who designs a stadium where the seats face directly towards beyond the center field wall. Good game though.

I noticed that when I went a couple years ago and say on the left field line. I guess previously I had been in the OF ot behind hoke plate. Weird they have not adjusted those.

[GburgNatsFan]

The Orioles need to get out of Washington's baseball territory. The Old Senators allowed Hoffberger to move the Browns to a minor league city near Washington, a city famous only for the Baltimore Chop. Instead, the new Baltimore team declared that The District was part of Baltimore. The Angelos team should leave. Go back to St Louis, a real baseball town.

What goes around comes around.

[Senatorswin]

John Angelos is saying he wants $300,000,000 more than the $600,000,000 Maryland is willing to spend to upgrade Camden Yards. Just as bad, he wants the rights to land near Camden Yards to develop it. That is huge. Both requests/demands are crazy. There is land towards the casino near the Top Golf that is just screaming for development. They could use that land to make it similar to what's been done around Nats Park.

The $600,000,000 offer is more than generous and has been accepted by the Ravens. If the Maryland stadium authority and Maryland politicians agree to his demands the should be fired and/or voted out of office.

[welch]

Send the Angelos team back to St Louis. The Orioles never belonged so close to the Nats. Clark Griffith should have blocked them back in 1953-'54, although the Orioles were stupid enough to trade Roy Sievers, AL home run champ in 1957, for Washington's Gil Coan.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

John Angelos is saying he wants $300,000,000 more than the $600,000,000 Maryland is willing to spend to upgrade Camden Yards. Just as bad, he wants the rights to land near Camden Yards to develop it. That is huge. Both requests/demands are crazy. There is land towards the casino near the Top Golf that is just screaming for development. They could use that land to make it similar to what's been done around Nats Park.

The $600,000,000 offer is more than generous and has been accepted by the Ravens. If the Maryland stadium authority and Maryland politicians agree to his demands the should be fired and/or voted out of office.

Totally batcrap.

Hoping he fails and just sells the team.  Unfortunately the way of the world these days seems to be that pro sports owners get to throw hissy fits and move teams with proud traditions to other cities, after finding some dupe government that will kowtow to their absurd demands (see: the Raiders, Chargers, A's, and maybe the Rays in due time).

[Senatorswin]

John Angelos hints the Orioles won't extend young stars without dramatically raising prices at the ballpark.

The article points out Angelos has said on multiple occasions that he would open up the books to reporters but hasn't followed through. He's cleaning up with the second lowest payroll in MLB this year. John Angelos stinks out loud.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/john-angelos-hints-orioles-wont-extend-young-stars-without-dramatically-raising-prices-at-the-ballpark/

[imref]

Enjoy it while it last orioles.

[Slateman]

Lol, John just hates good vibes

[imref]

The O’s are on pace to make about $214 million in ticket revenue alone this year.

[nfotiu]

The O’s are on pace to make about $214 million in ticket revenue alone this year.

Where does that number come from?   $50 tickets for 24,000 fans per game would be under 100 million.

[imref]

Where does that number come from?   $50 tickets for 24,000 fans per game would be under 100 million.

In digging around I've seen one estimate of an average ticket price of $123, another of an average ticket price of $30. Average attendance is about 21,400. And the Orioles get about $60 million a year in national TV money.

Angelos has the money to pay the team.

The Baltimore Sun posted an article on Oriole ticket prices overall:
https://www.baltimoresun.com/opinion/readers-respond/bs-ed-rr-orioles-ticket-prices-letter-20230526-vf7cvl3g6vh2vhesapn2qhn7de-story.html

[Mattionals]

John Angelos is somehow even worse than his father.

[GburgNatsFan]

John Angelos is somehow even worse than his father.

The rotten, gnarled, wormy apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

[Natsinpwc]

One of the reasons they have financial issues is having to pay lawyers from all their dumb legal maneuvers.

[Ali the Baseball Cat]

I'm going up there next weekend to get my annual Boog's fix.  Anyone have a Rockies hat I can borrow?

[nfotiu]

In digging around I've seen one estimate of an average ticket price of $123, another of an average ticket price of $30. Average attendance is about 21,400. And the Orioles get about $60 million a year in national TV money.

Angelos has the money to pay the team.

The Baltimore Sun posted an article on Oriole ticket prices overall:
https://www.baltimoresun.com/opinion/readers-respond/bs-ed-rr-orioles-ticket-prices-letter-20230526-vf7cvl3g6vh2vhesapn2qhn7de-story.html

It seems more likely in the $30-50 range as an average.   Some of those averages on Google are scalper averages.   

Your overall point is sound though.  So probably 100 million in ticket revenue, 60 million in national tv, 40 million in locally pooled revenue sharing.   If they settled MASN to just split the revenues to both teams, they'd get 75 million and keep 37.5 of it after revenue sharing.   So about 240 million.  I'd guess other stadium revenue like parking and concessions would offset most of the operating expenses.

Yeah, so they could easily handle about 150 million in payroll and turn a profit.   

There just becomes so little business incentive for revenue sharing recipients to spend money.   If they increase their payroll by 100 million, I doubt they make it back in revenue.   Revenue sharing should really come with a salary floor that they have to forfeit revenue sharing money if they don't hit it.

[welch]

CalsGR8 just posted a Baltimore Sun article in which younger Angelos explains what he did to that announcer and, best I can see, why he wants Nats fans in PG and Montgomery Counties to pay taxes for "improvements" to the stadium that Maryland tax money built. It demands a subscription, so I don't have details...

Headline:

Report: John Angelos casts doubt on Orioles’ ability to retain young stars, speaks about Kevin Brown’s discipline

https://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bs-sp-orioles-john-angelos-contract-extensions-kevin-brown-20230821-pef2olyuqnhwbp54ouxgrxpcf4-story.html?fbclid=IwAR3J0XdGXHHJEcdhGBcV0uoMzRzjJWUyRz1sBrB5ifLXAOhHsWUES7VDiGI

[Slateman]

John Angelos is somehow even worse than his father.

Yea. Hes a billionaire that was born on third base, but thinks he actually worked his way there.

[Slateman]

It seems more likely in the $30-50 range as an average.   Some of those averages on Google are scalper averages.   

Your overall point is sound though.  So probably 100 million in ticket revenue, 60 million in national tv, 40 million in locally pooled revenue sharing.   If they settled MASN to just split the revenues to both teams, they'd get 75 million and keep 37.5 of it after revenue sharing.   So about 240 million.  I'd guess other stadium revenue like parking and concessions would offset most of the operating expenses.

Yeah, so they could easily handle about 150 million in payroll and turn a profit.   

There just becomes so little business incentive for revenue sharing recipients to spend money.   If they increase their payroll by 100 million, I doubt they make it back in revenue.   Revenue sharing should really come with a salary floor that they have to forfeit revenue sharing money if they don't hit it.

Orioles also get MLB wide revenue sharing.

[nfotiu]

Orioles also get MLB wide revenue sharing.

That's what the 40 million I referenced was.   40 million from the pool of local revenue, and 60 million for their share of national tv.