Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?

[HalfSmokes]

down little river turnpike to quaker lane to Braddock to Commonwealth to Monroe to Potomac Ave. Never have to get on 395 or Route 1.

I guess it sucks to live in del ray

[imref]

I guess it sucks to live in del ray

much better to live in del boca vista (phase 2).

[JCA-CrystalCity]

I guess it sucks to live in del ray

yes. Basically cut through Fairlington and Del Ray by the way I'm saying.

Realistically, I think folks from Fairfax will use 395 to Pentagon City, then either HAyes/18th or 12th/Crystal Drive over to Potomac and Rte 1. I don't think S. Glebe to E. Glebe helps (or is it West Glebe? I get my Glebes confused).

[Five Banners]

yes. Basically cut through Fairlington and Del Ray by the way I'm saying.

Realistically, I think folks from Fairfax will use 395 to Pentagon City, then either HAyes/18th or 12th/Crystal Drive over to Potomac and Rte 1. I don't think S. Glebe to E. Glebe helps (or is it West Glebe? I get my Glebes confused).

I found this noteworthy as the last paragraph in the first story the Post did on this:

“State officials are considering a plan to lower a segment of Route 1 — which connects Potomac Yard with downtown D.C. — from an elevated highway into a flattened “urban boulevard,” and a new arena would be all but certain to add to traffic in an area that already experiences heavy gridlock.”

Note that “state officials“ who don’t have to live anywhere near that would be considering that.

[HalfSmokes]

I found this noteworthy as the last paragraph in the first story the Post did on this:

“State officials are considering a plan to lower a segment of Route 1 — which connects Potomac Yard with downtown D.C. — from an elevated highway into a flattened “urban boulevard,” and a new arena would be all but certain to add to traffic in an area that already experiences heavy gridlock.”

Note that “state officials“ who don’t have to live anywhere near that would be considering that.

They already have rapid buss lines through Potomac Yards. All they do is restrict the lanes available for cars so that empty buses can avoid traffic

[imref]

Svrluga did a chat.  A few items of note:
- CapOne Arena management believes they can book 100 dates a year, that's half of the current schedule
- Virginia's cost is likely to be $200 million in transportation improvements (including expanding the Potomac Yards station), plus using tax revenues generated by the project to pay bonds
- unknown impact on the MedStar ice rink. I assume they can survive without the Caps (and some opponents) practicing there
- Ted has rejected the DC offer and won't be asking for money to renovate CapOne
- Svrluga thinks that this minimizes the likelihood of Virginia going after the Commanders
- Metro cutbacks are a big concern, especially if Metro closes at 10 PM on game nights
- Bowser's admin had been in talks with Monumental for two years, but there was no sense of urgency until news broke of the Alexandria project
- DC shrunk the # of officers assigned to the arena on game nights from 27 to 3. Monumental had been paying for off-duty officers to work games
-

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/12/13/capitals-wizards-virginia/

[imref]

Some more detail on costs from the above chat:

It looks like the overall cost to the commonwealth will be at least $1.6 billion. That includes $150-200 million in transportation improvements, such as expanding capacity at the Potomac Yard Metro station, and $1.4 billion the state will borrow. That part is harder to explain, but bear with me:

The real-estate developer JBG Smith owns the land where the Monumental complex would go. JBG Smith would sell that land to a Virginia stadium authority, which would lease the property to Monumental and issue $1.4 billion in bonds for the project, an aide to Gov. Youngkin told our colleague Laura Vozzella on the condition of anonymity to share confidential details.

Some of the bonds will be paid off using revenue from the development (including tax revenue as well as Monumental's lease) over a 40-year period. Two people familiar with the lease told Laura that was about $30 million a year, though it's still subject to negotiations.

But what happens if this project doesn't generate the tax revenue it was predicted to generate? That's when taxpayers would be on the hook. And how this will affect tax rates in Virginia? That's also unclear.

I'm remembering that Prince William rejected the Potomac Nationals stadium deal because of the risk of tax revenue not covering bond obligations.

[Slateman]

I found this noteworthy as the last paragraph in the first story the Post did on this:

“State officials are considering a plan to lower a segment of Route 1 — which connects Potomac Yard with downtown D.C. — from an elevated highway into a flattened “urban boulevard,” and a new arena would be all but certain to add to traffic in an area that already experiences heavy gridlock.”

Note that “state officials“ who don’t have to live anywhere near that would be considering that.

Im sorry, but NoVA is freaked for traffic no matter what it does. If thats the reason you dont want to build anything, then you'll literally never build anything.

Whats needed for 20 years (at least) was a modern public transit system that could interlink an updated Metro with actual high speed rail. Instead, what the state had decided is to not do crap about Metro and sell highways to toll companies.

[Natsinpwc]

Some more detail on costs from the above chat:

I'm remembering that Prince William rejected the Potomac Nationals stadium deal because of the risk of tax revenue not covering bond obligations.

Yup. Difference here is that the state is pushing it. freak the locals. 

[Natsinpwc]

Im sorry, but NoVA is freaked for traffic no matter what it does. If thats the reason you dont want to build anything, then you'll literally never build anything.

Whats needed for 20 years (at least) was a modern public transit system that could interlink an updated Metro with actual high speed rail. Instead, what the state had decided is to not do crap about Metro and sell highways to toll companies.

Well traffic can get worse. I think pretty much study has shown these sports stadium projects don’t benefit the local communities. 

[nfotiu]

Well traffic can get worse. I think pretty much study has shown these sports stadium projects don’t benefit the local communities. 

That's true, but there are some different dynamics at play here than the studies I've read.   One of the major points of those studies is they aren't really bringing in new money, but just cannibalizing other entertainment spending in the area.   In this case, you currently have MD,DC and VA residents spending their money in DC, but a move to VA would have those residents spend their money in VA instead.   

Probably still a bad deal and not good for DC, but depending on the true cost to the state, it may a more valuable investment than elsewhere.

[Five Banners]

Svrluga did a chat.  A few items of note:

- Bowser's admin had been in talks with Monumental for two years, but there was no sense of urgency until news broke of the Alexandria project
- DC shrunk the # of officers assigned to the arena on game nights from 27 to 3. Monumental had been paying for off-duty officers to work games
-

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/12/13/capitals-wizards-virginia/

Looks like lack of urgency on certain priorities wasn’t reserved for the new arena deal

[1995hoo]

I don’t see why Metro cutbacks are any more or less of a problem for the Virginia location than they would be for the current location. The issue in Virginia is that only two lines (Blue and Yellow) serve the area and there’s pretty much only one stop within easy walking distance for most people, whereas downtown all six lines stop within four blocks of the arena with three stops (Gallery Place, Metro Center, and Judiciary Square) within very easy walking distance and a fourth (Archives) not too much further away. Spreads out the crowds a little more.

[imref]

scanning social media and news comments tonight, and i can't find anyone, other than Ted, who is in favor of this move / project

[Natsinpwc]

scanning social media and news comments tonight, and i can't find anyone, other than Ted, who is in favor of this move / project

Yongkin.  And the business leaders who will benefit. 

And back in the day. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/longterm/general/mciarticles/launch/fairfax.htm

[machpost]

This makes me dread the end of the Nats' stadium lease a little over a decade from now. No matter who owns the team at that point, you can bet they'll be threatening to go someplace else.

[HalfSmokes]

This makes me dread the end of the Nats' stadium lease a little over a decade from now. No matter who owns the team at that point, you can bet they'll be threatening to go someplace else.

They always threaten. The question is whether the city takes the treat seriously or whether there really is another option. DC is weird in that the standard calculations don't really apply. If a suburb is competing against a city, there generally isn't a separate state supporting that bid. In DC, you have Virginia, MD, and DC all bidding against each other. DC with a population less half Fairfax and a bit more than half of MoCo (not to mention Arlington, Alexandria, PG, Howard, Charles, or Loudon) is so much smaller than the neighboring suburbs. I can't think of another city where that dynamic exists.

[UMDNats]

ted low-key one of the worst owners in pro sports. ovechkin gets gifted to him and he almost freaked that up, too, and his ego probably cost ovy 4-6 years of his prime. just a crappy dude all around. amazing that he got away with physically assaulting a fan at a game.

nats park next on the chopping block.

[Slateman]

Yup. Difference here is that the state is pushing it. freak the locals. 

Uh, where are you reading that local government is not on board?

Well traffic can get worse. I think pretty much study has shown these sports stadium projects don’t benefit the local communities. 

The studies have been around subsidies for sports stadiums. Generally, they don't match up with the revenue generated.


But to say a sports stadium doesn't benefit a local community is untrue.

[Natsinpwc]

Uh, where are you reading that local government is not on board?
The studies have been around subsidies for sports stadiums. Generally, they don't match up with the revenue generated.


But to say a sports stadium doesn't benefit a local community is untrue.

I meant the local residents.  Do you think they are happy with this?   

So how does a stadium benefit the local community.  Do you think the lives of those who lived around Nats Park have improved?    If so in what way?  They have expensive restaurants they cannot afford to go to?  I mean those who have been there and not those who have moved in.

[HalfSmokes]

Uh, where are you reading that local government is not on board?
The studies have been around subsidies for sports stadiums. Generally, they don't match up with the revenue generated.


But to say a sports stadium doesn't benefit a local community is untrue.

They usually look at revenue generated and compare it to expected revenue absent the stadium. The DC area is different because a fan coming from VA to DC or DC to VA is spending money that would not otherwise be taxed locally. Even with zero concerts, the arena will be occupied 100 days a year - it's going to be a win for the area. 

[HalfSmokes]

I meant the local residents.  Do you think they are happy with this?   

So how does a stadium benefit the local community.  Do you think the lives of those who lived around Nats Park have improved?    If so in what way?  They have expensive restaurants they cannot afford to go to?  I mean those who have been there and not those who have moved in.

We have friends in Aurora Highlands who are up in arms and say their neighbors are too, but they don't get a vote. Potomac Yards residents and Rosemont residents may be furious, but there aren't very many of them compared to Alexandria as a whole.

[Natsinpwc]

So why does everyone hate Ted? LOL.

[machpost]

ted low-key one of the worst owners in pro sports. ovechkin gets gifted to him and he almost freaked that up, too, and his ego probably cost ovy 4-6 years of his prime. just a crappy dude all around. amazing that he got away with physically assaulting a fan at a game.

He really is. I don't see the Wizards EVER being competitive, and the Caps are clearly in decline with very little evidence that they're capable of mounting a successful rebuild campaign. If the traffic and accessibility issues manifest themselves as some believe they will, I think there's a chance these two franchises end up with very poor attendance and interest after the honeymoon period. It's such a narrow strip of land with little room for infrastructure improvements.

[HalfSmokes]

So why does everyone hate Ted? LOL.

The Wizards are one of the most mismanaged teams in professional sports. I'm not a hockey fan, so I don't care if he's a good owner there. If you aren't LA or Miami or NYC, you aren't getting free agents, but, even then, homegrown stars are how teams win. The top 4 teams in the east and west right now have home grown stars. Teams can trade well to acquire talent (the wizards managed to trade CP3 for the worst player in the NBA and a terrible pick) or they can draft well (you could assemble an all NBA roster with the players the wizards have passed over to take bums).