Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?

[KnorrForYourMoney]

As a geog major, that map makes me want to replace my cerebral fluid with bleach and kerosene.

[imref]

As a geog major, that map makes me want to replace my cerebral fluid with bleach and kerosene.

[Natsinpwc]

The good news is that by the time they move the Wiz will still suck and the Caps will be rebuilding after Ovie retires.  So not many fans. 

[Five Banners]

The good news is that by the time they move the Wiz will still suck and the Caps will be rebuilding after Ovie retires.  So not many fans. 

Except the whole thing about concerts

[Natsinpwc]

Except the whole thing about concerts

They will all be high so won’t kind the wait.

[imref]

https://www.virginiamercury.com/2024/02/02/study-finds-arena-plan-would-need-135-to-215-million-in-transportation-investments/

[Five Banners]

https://www.virginiamercury.com/2024/02/02/study-finds-arena-plan-would-need-135-to-215-million-in-transportation-investments/

“Because Alexandria had the foresight to plan for this kind of dense development, we will focus on peak traffic around games and events, and we believe this study gives us a clear path forward.”

Alexandria and traffic foresight?

[imref]

Yeah that part was funny.

[HalfSmokes]

“Because Alexandria had the foresight to plan for this kind of dense development, we will focus on peak traffic around games and events, and we believe this study gives us a clear path forward.”

Alexandria and traffic foresight?

They focus on peak traffic during events? What else would they focus on, traffic generated when the arena is empty?

[Natsinpwc]

https://www.virginiamercury.com/2024/02/02/study-finds-arena-plan-would-need-135-to-215-million-in-transportation-investments/

Luckily there aren’t any other transportation needs in NOVA.   

[JCA-CrystalCity]

I see better cycling connections are part of the plan. Unless there's some real separation from vehicles and big stretches of the mount vernon / 4 mile run / W&OD are lit up game nights, I don't see many people wanting to do this. I know that I'm uncomfortable cycling at night from Nats Park due to the mile or so along the river between the 14 St bridge and Crystal City due to the lack of lighting on the Mt Vernon Trail, so I don't see that as attracting many riders going the other way. biking back and forth probably is not viable until the Long Bridge path and connection through CC is built. Even then, who the heck is going to want to ride at night in the winter? Sure, some, but really is this going to be used by more than a couple hundred people?

As for Potomac Yard traffic, I guess the big foresight thing was to straighten out Rt 1 rather than having the long bridge at Monroe Av.

[HalfSmokes]

I see better cycling connections are part of the plan. Unless there's some real separation from vehicles and big stretches of the mount vernon / 4 mile run / W&OD are lit up game nights, I don't see many people wanting to do this. I know that I'm uncomfortable cycling at night from Nats Park due to the mile or so along the river between the 14 St bridge and Crystal City due to the lack of lighting on the Mt Vernon Trail, so I don't see that as attracting many riders going the other way. biking back and forth probably is not viable until the Long Bridge path and connection through CC is built. Even then, who the heck is going to want to ride at night in the winter? Sure, some, but really is this going to be used by more than a couple hundred people?

As for Potomac Yard traffic, I guess the big foresight thing was to straighten out Rt 1 rather than having the long bridge at Monroe Av.

Lighting up mt vernon trail would require the park service to agree- good luck with that

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Lighting up mt vernon trail would require the park service to agree- good luck with that

yes. Very difficult. Better solution short term would be to link Long Bridge road (parallels 395 along Boeing fields and the aquatic center) and link to the 14th St path to the west of 395. I think there's an intent to do that. less that has to be linked. I think the new long bridge rail will link to CC via Long Bridge road, but that's a long time coming.

[HalfSmokes]

I’m still expecting this to never be built. 2,500 parking spots almost guarantees terrible attendance

[JCA-CrystalCity]

I’m still expecting this to never be built. 2,500 parking spots almost guarantees terrible attendance

2500 at the building. I wonder about the current Target parking lot and how long it will be for it to be developed. I could see that as transitional parking.

[Ali the Baseball Cat]

Other than the roast almond and sweater vest, everyone appears to hate this plan.  Genius!

[HalfSmokes]

2500 at the building. I wonder about the current Target parking lot and how long it will be for it to be developed. I could see that as transitional parking.

I could see target towing if their customers can’t park. That target is always insanely busy

[Five Banners]

I could see target towing if their customers can’t park. That target is always insanely busy

Some of these reports say that it may be the most profitable one in the country. This has a lot of layers to the onions that really haven’t been banded about too much, making space and road inadequacies appear to be far from the only hurdles to this.

[Natsinpwc]

I am sure there is some way to cordon off some parking there for stadium fans while greasing the palms of Target.  Still does not seem enough parking.  Fans might enjoy a shuttle ride now and then but will not want to do it on a regular basis.  Poorly though out plan.

[imref]

Any of you ever got to a sold out Fredricksburg game?  Folks park in the wegmans lot and walk. Fortunately they don’t tow.

[varoadking]

I’m still expecting this to never be built.

I agree...I think this project is DOA.  Ted is workin' Muriel right now just to get that $500MM up to $600MM...or whatever he can...

[imref]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/02/09/amazon-hq2-capitals-wizards-arena-virginia-alexandria/

[Five Banners]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/02/09/amazon-hq2-capitals-wizards-arena-virginia-alexandria/

“Questions about how to get as many as 20,000 spectators to Alexandria’s Potomac Yard area have emerged as an early sticking point. Sports fans coming south from D.C. could add 2,800 cars during peak rush hour to an already congested Route 1, according to a state-commissioned study released last week.”

Yeah, about that…

https://alexandriaecon.org/wp-content/uploads/Project-Potter-Transportation-Update_2024-02-01.pdf


“Peak Travel analysis considered arena inbound traffic during the PM peak (5-6 PM) for auto traffic and post-event travel for transit use to assess “worst case” conditions.”

As a bonus of the cutting off the “peak travel” at 6 PM, everything from 6 PM and afterwards can then be considered “off peak“ for the inbound traffic, which they appear to do in the report ( e.g. page 15).

The extension of rush-hour with an unprecedented number of people coming into the area in the space of a couple of hours is precisely the issue that needs to be measured. How many fans here generally are done with their travel to the ballpark before 6 PM? One would think that that may be some working downtown or who work in the field permits them avoid traditional work hours, as well as those that don’t have to double back home, or bring other people with them. As might have been gathered through personal experience as well as watching the traditional late arrival of crowds at regional entertainment venues, because of traffic and the speed of transit, the number of people that would have their venue-focused traffic experience peaking between 4 PM to 6 PM or 5 PM to 6 PM would seem to be on the comparatively small side.

And yet, a key part of what experience and common sense would put as part of the peak – – 6 PM to 7:30 PM, running right up to and beyond the start of events – – appears to have been exercised and consign to “off-peak“, which also would have a potentially convenient lessening of impact in every numbers crunched with that as a basis. What a complete shock that the Post cited this report, but didn’t actually note the evident incongruity of the figures used.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

I think after 6 PM is off peak because it is based on commuters being the bulk of the traffic and the arena crowd as adding onto that. I guess they believe that after 6, the regular commute dies down, which opens road and rail space for the arena. 5-6 is when arena and commuter would have the heaviest overlap.

Personally, I work until 6 most days, so my commute into CC is later. I would say earlier trains are busier, but I can't vouch for the roads.

[Five Banners]

I think after 6 PM is off peak because it is based on commuters being the bulk of the traffic and the arena crowd as adding onto that. I guess they believe that after 6, the regular commute dies down, which opens road and rail space for the arena. 5-6 is when arena and commuter would have the heaviest overlap.

Personally, I work until 6 most days, so my commute into CC is later. I would say earlier trains are busier, but I can't vouch for the roads.

Yet even they reportedly admit the delay expansion in post-game crowd dispersion impact. The evening rush timeframe necessarily expands when there’s an accident, and the impact of traffic on a roadway system already overburdened figures to have a similar negative impact. Thus, the timeframe in which the regular traffic would be dying down would not be at that point, but just expanded further.

As far as why they chose it, again, they didn’t have to put the proportional increase in traffic into that timeframe and figure it into the overall “peak” formula that gets quoted and focused on just like in the story, which would seem quite the incentive to work things that way if you could get away with it.