Extend Scherzer?

[imref]

DeGrom is having a year for the ages. Better than Pete in 2000 which is unbelievable that anybody could be that much better than one of the best pitching years ever.

Max is not even top 10 in Pitching WAR in the NL this year:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/NL/2021-pitching-leaders.shtml

[Natsinpwc]

Max is not even top 10 in Pitching WAR in the NL this year:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/NL/2021-pitching-leaders.shtml

Isn’t that also because he missed some starts?

[imref]

Isn’t that also because he missed some starts?

Yes, only 88IP

[Slateman]

Unpopular opinion: Don't extend him. He simply isnt same without his sticky stuff.

Trade him at the deadline for prospects, find a way to get out of either Corbin or Strasburg, and sign another free agent in a couple years

[Kevrock]

Dislike.

[Natsinpwc]

Don’t extend that Max. Find the other Max he apparently hid away.

[nfotiu]

Who are the good pitchers left other than deGrom having his magically best season ever at 33?

Cole sucks.  Bauer's headed to prison.  Kershaw is on the IL more often than he isn't.  A lot of the other big names have sucked since the crackdown

Are we just headed to games with no name, disposable guys throwing 100 for an inning or two?   That would really kill a lot of the essence of baseball.   

There should have been a middle ground on the crackdown of allowing some legit substance that allowed elite pitchers to still be elite.   It flipped the balance too far the other way, and now velocity is the only defense pitchers have.

[Slateman]

Who are the good pitchers left other than deGrom having his magically best season ever at 33?

Cole sucks.  Bauer's headed to prison.  Kershaw is on the IL more often than he isn't.  A lot of the other big names have sucked since the crackdown

Are we just headed to games with no name, disposable guys throwing 100 for an inning or two?   That would really kill a lot of the essence of baseball.   

There should have been a middle ground on the crackdown of allowing some legit substance that allowed elite pitchers to still be elite.   It flipped the balance too far the other way, and now velocity is the only defense pitchers have.

German Marquez
Zach Wheeler
Aaron Nola
Walker Buehler
Clayton Kershaw
Taijuan Walker


This is less about the sticky stuff and more about Scherzer's age. Combine that with nothing to grip the baseball and he simply isnt who we all remember him to be

[Natsinpwc]

German Marquez
Zach Wheeler
Aaron Nola
Walker Buehler
Clayton Kershaw
Taijuan Walker


This is less about the sticky stuff and more about Scherzer's age. Combine that with nothing to grip the baseball and he simply isnt who we all remember him to be

Maybe some of the MLB pitchers need to give up a couple of miles of speed and learn to control their pitches better. Pitching rather than throwing. 

[hotshot]

I know winning the WS self-validated Rizzo's pitching first philosophy to him but ... never was to my liking. In this day of "openers" and starters throwing 100 pitches or so (if they even make it to the middle innings), why invest that heavily in fragile arms, more quickly depreciating skills, etc? Put the $$ into everyday players who can put the bat on the ball.

[Slateman]

Maybe some of the MLB pitchers need to give up a couple of miles of speed and learn to control their pitches better. Pitching rather than throwing. 

And then they get hit hard.

[Natsinpwc]

And then they get hit hard.

Plenty of guys successful that way.

[hotshot]

Plenty of guys successful that way.

Livan comes to mind. Going back, Jamie Moyer. Way back, Eddie Lopat. This ilk gets hit hard on occasion but ...can be highly effective, not to mention often go deep in games.

[nfotiu]

Livan comes to mind. Going back, Jamie Moyer. Way back, Eddie Lopat. This ilk gets hit hard on occasion but ...can be highly effective, not to mention often go deep in games.

It’s getting harder and harder for those guys to even get a sniff of the big leagues these days.  Not many pitchers are even getting into div 1 colleges, let alone drafted if their it at least 6’3 and throwing 95.   

[Slateman]

Plenty of guys successful that way.

Who is successful that way? Who has dropped velo and become better?

[Slateman]

Livan comes to mind. Going back, Jamie Moyer. Way back, Eddie Lopat. This ilk gets hit hard on occasion but ...can be highly effective, not to mention often go deep in games.

That was 20+ years ago. Baseball has changed. Those guys wouldnt keep an ERA under 5 in today's game

[Elvir Ovcina]

That was 20+ years ago. Baseball has changed. Those guys wouldnt keep an ERA under 5 in today's game

The part of this that few people want to talk about is umpiring.  Now with pitch tracking, you can't get calls throwing junk an inch and a half off the plate (cough, Tom Glavine).  The plate is now 17 inches wide plus balls on the paint, not the 20-ish plus some float to the low-outside corner it was informally in the 90s. 

The result is guys need to use the whole zone, including the top.  Doing that requires a big fastball. It also leads to lots of Ks and lots of homers.

[Kevrock]

Who is successful that way? Who has dropped velo and become better?

Not better, but Greinke.

[Natsinpwc]

Who is successful that way? Who has dropped velo and become better?

Strasburg in 2019.  Didn’t throw nearly as hard as in his early years. 

[Slateman]

Strasburg in 2019.  Didn’t throw nearly as hard as in his early years. 

He was still throwing mid 90s

Also, his best season was 2017, during which his fastball averaged 95.9 mph. Thats pretty much in line with his post TJS performance

[Slateman]

Not better, but Greinke.

2009 Grienke was a lot better. He's maintaining his level of performance, but he certainly isnt better than he was ten years ago.

[Elvir Ovcina]

He was still throwing mid 90s

And he wasn't better.  Strasburg at 21 had some of the best stuff anyone's ever seen and had a sub-3 ERA as a 21 year old rookie.  His MLB ERA before he got hurt was 2.54.  Pre-surgery Strasburg looked like a better version of Justin Verlander.

Strasburg post-surgery is still very good, but not quite the same.  He's had one sub-3 season since, which was a 2.52 and his career ERA is now well over 3.

[hotshot]

That was 20+ years ago. Baseball has changed. Those guys wouldnt keep an ERA under 5 in today's game

You may be right but ... I see plenty of today's hitters looking foolish against off speed/breaking stuff. The massive number of strikeouts we see most games aren't all attributable to 98+ heat.

Plus, pitch counts would be greatly improved by pitchers able to induce weak contact.  Somehow, pitching to contact/giving your fielders an opportunity to record outs is a thing of the past? I don't think it has to be.

[Mattionals]

You may be right but ... I see plenty of today's hitters looking foolish against off speed/breaking stuff. The massive number of strikeouts we see most games aren't all attributable to 98+ heat.

Plus, pitch counts would be greatly improved by pitchers able to induce weak contact.  Somehow, pitching to contact/giving your fielders an opportunity to record outs is a thing of the past? I don't think it has to be.

So if guys are looking terrible against off speed stuff, maybe it has to do with really good offspeed pitches? Hmmmm, I wonder if pitchers were getting an advantage to throw better off speed stuff?

Oh wait....
















To be completely honest, I'm still on the warpath to have a new baseball that has a chemically applied even coating of "stickyness".

[Elvir Ovcina]

So if guys are looking terrible against off speed stuff, maybe it has to do with really good offspeed pitches? Hmmmm, I wonder if pitchers were getting an advantage to throw better off speed stuff?

Oh wait....
















To be completely honest, I'm still on the warpath to have a new baseball that has a chemically applied even coating of "stickyness".

While I'm with you on the conclusion, I don't think the quality of off-speed stuff is the entire solution.  Yes, junked-up spin rates help, but I see guys in AA (I live in a AA city so I see a lot of AA) flailing at bad breaking stuff to a degree that would have been a problem a level or two lower ten years ago.  It looks pretty systemic to me: guys get farther now with a fastball and one mediocre breaking pitch and hitters get farther without needing to hit breaking stuff at all. 

The obvious corollary is that pitchers have better fastballs and hitters hit them better; low-90s fastballs with typical AA command get pounded left and right when a decade ago you could get away with that.