Author Topic: Nationals vs Marlins, Game 1  (Read 14320 times)

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Offline OldChelsea

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Re: Nationals vs Marlins, Game 1
« Reply #25: July 26, 2011, 11:30:17 AM »
For those going tonight: the Post's Capital Weather Gang has 'Wear light clothing for the heat, but much more comfortable than recent days', high 90, low 85, 5% chance of rain.

Will be missing this one on a Mystics conflict (ah, the cool, climate-controlled Phone Booth!) but will be in TBSITH for the other two fixtures of this series.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Nationals vs Marlins, Game 1
« Reply #26: July 26, 2011, 11:30:37 AM »
First, I assume you meant "or". Also, all these stats use information that has happened, so I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

I'm making a joke that Chief will get. 

Offline OldChelsea

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Re: Nationals vs Marlins, Game 1
« Reply #27: July 26, 2011, 11:32:21 AM »
First, I assume you meant "or". Also, all these stats use information that has happened, so I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

'Of' is Dutch for 'or'.

Offline The Chief

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Re: Nationals vs Marlins, Game 1
« Reply #28: July 26, 2011, 11:49:39 AM »
40th by SIERA

Fortunately for pitchers they've got a team behind them.

Offline Kentucky_National

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Re: Nationals vs Marlins, Game 1
« Reply #29: July 26, 2011, 12:09:17 PM »
We really need to win a damn series. I'm finally back from LA, and while it was an awesome time, it still sucked to see us lose 2 out of 3 in person over 2,000 miles from home.

We have't won a series since the Cubs one, lol.

Offline PatsNats28

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Re: Nationals vs Marlins, Game 1
« Reply #30: July 26, 2011, 01:38:21 PM »
Fortunately for pitchers they've got a team behind them.

SIERA takes the team into account more than FIP though.

Offline Sharp

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Re: Nationals vs Marlins, Game 1
« Reply #31: July 26, 2011, 01:41:08 PM »
You think there are 30 other starters in MLB better than Zimmermann?

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2011&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0
I don't think there are 30 starters in the MLB with better results to date than Zimmermann.  That doesn't necessarily mean that there aren't 30 starters who will have better results going forward.

Offline PatsNats28

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Re: Nationals vs Marlins, Game 1
« Reply #32: July 26, 2011, 01:44:33 PM »
Ryan's a pretty good pitcher ;)

Offline Sharp

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Re: Nationals vs Marlins, Game 1
« Reply #33: July 26, 2011, 01:51:50 PM »
Ryan's a pretty good pitcher ;)
:(

Did you see Cuddyer pitch last night?  Best performance of the night by a Twin...

Offline The Chief

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Re: Nationals vs Marlins, Game 1
« Reply #34: July 26, 2011, 01:54:41 PM »
I don't think there are 30 starters in the MLB with better results to date than Zimmermann.  That doesn't necessarily mean that there aren't 30 starters who will have better results going forward.

Care to make a friendly wager?

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Nationals vs Marlins, Game 1
« Reply #35: July 26, 2011, 01:56:50 PM »

Offline CatsEye

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Re: Nationals vs Marlins, Game 1
« Reply #36: July 26, 2011, 02:10:26 PM »
    "Fish gotta swim - Birds gotta fly - You Know What I Mean.....But It's A New Day, A New Time, A New Way ".....And Nats are coming Home......To Win...... :mg:
                                                                    :cheers:

     

Offline Sharp

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Re: Nationals vs Marlins, Game 1
« Reply #37: July 26, 2011, 02:10:26 PM »
Care to make a friendly wager?
I only bet on things I'm absolutely certain of, so no.  Baseball's a terrible sport to bet on.  But his HR/FB rate is 3.3%.  For comparison, Mariano Rivera's career rate is 6.0%.  That's going to regress, if not this season then next, and generally when you give up home runs your ERA rises.  His SIERA is still very good (3.60) so it's not like it's predicting disaster or anything, but he's almost certainly not as good as his ERA suggests.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Nationals vs Marlins, Game 1
« Reply #38: July 26, 2011, 02:25:44 PM »
I only bet on things I'm absolutely certain of, so no.

This statement pretty much sums it up...

Offline Sharp

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Re: Nationals vs Marlins, Game 1
« Reply #39: July 26, 2011, 02:39:39 PM »
A pretty big part of statistics is knowing how much of what we see is statistical noise, as Marquis well knows (which is why he likes to egg me on).  Zimmermann is just as likely to underperform his peripherals going forward as he is to overperform them.  If his peripherals were really bad (like a 5.00 SIERA or something) then I'd feel pretty confident that even if he got "lucky" he still wouldn't be inside the top 30 starters going forward.  But they're quite good, so he doesn't have to be THAT lucky to be a top 30 starter for the rest of the season.  The other pitchers just have to underperform a little or he has to overperform a little, plus he's going to be shut down soon so he doesn't have to overperform for very long.  I'm quite far from certain that Zimm is not going to pitch like a top 30 guy for the rest of the year.  But, I think it's less likely that he will be a top 30 guy going forward than that he will be 30-60, hopefully nearer 30 than 60.  A "true" second starter is still really damn good, and the Nats have never had one before.

Offline sportsfan882

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Re: Nationals vs Marlins, Game 1
« Reply #40: July 26, 2011, 02:51:10 PM »
@NationalsPR #Nationals lineup vs. #Marlins - Bernadina 8, Espinosa 4, Zim 5, Morse 3, Werth 9, Nix 7, Ramos 2, Desmond 6, J-Zim 1.

Ricky Nolasco gave up 9 ER in 1.1 IP his last time out. Look for him to be on his 'A' game tonight. :?

Offline Frau Mau

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Re: Nationals vs Marlins, Game 1
« Reply #41: July 26, 2011, 02:56:03 PM »
Ha!  My wife and her friends are probably going to start a MMFF.net - Michael Morse Fan Forum.

I'm sure they already have!

Offline The Chief

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Re: Nationals vs Marlins, Game 1
« Reply #42: July 26, 2011, 03:00:22 PM »
I only bet on things I'm absolutely certain of, so no.

What fun is that?  You know you're just jealous of sportsnyan's awesome poptar cat avatar :mg:

Quote
Baseball's a terrible sport to bet on.  But his HR/FB rate is 3.3%.  For comparison, Mariano Rivera's career rate is 6.0%.  That's going to regress, if not this season then next, and generally when you give up home runs your ERA rises.  His SIERA is still very good (3.60) so it's not like it's predicting disaster or anything, but he's almost certainly not as good as his ERA suggests.

But I didn't single out ERA, or any other single factor.  I said "by almost any measure".  If one of those measures "regresses" and his ERA suffers as a result, so what?  I thought ERA was mostly meaningless to you anyway? :stir:

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Nationals vs Marlins, Game 1
« Reply #43: July 26, 2011, 03:01:47 PM »
:popcorn:

Offline The Chief

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Re: Nationals vs Marlins, Game 1
« Reply #44: July 26, 2011, 03:06:21 PM »
Also Sharp, I think it's silly to argue about the future of a guy who's only pitched two seasons with such drastic disparities, hence why I was sticking to the present.  It'd be different if Zimmermann were pitching like this after 4 or 5 seasons of ~3.80 ERA ball.  We obviously all hope that he's a top pitcher going forward, but who the hell really knows?

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Nationals vs Marlins, Game 1
« Reply #45: July 26, 2011, 03:09:24 PM »
Lineups are updated.

Offline Sharp

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Re: Nationals vs Marlins, Game 1
« Reply #46: July 26, 2011, 03:18:57 PM »
What fun is that?  You know you're just jealous of sportsnyan's awesome poptar cat avatar :mg:

But I didn't single out ERA, or any other single factor.  I said "by almost any measure".  If one of those measures "regresses" and his ERA suffers as a result, so what?  I thought ERA was mostly meaningless to you anyway? :stir:
C'mon Chief.  Of course ERA isn't meaningless.  The whole point of stats like FIP and SIERA is to give us a better idea of (1) how much the pitcher actually contributed to the team's chance of winning, and (2) how much he is likely to contribute going forward.  The larger the number of innings, the better ERA is at telling us both things.  RA/9 is probably even better, but it's not widely available and rarely differs too much from ERA.  However, in Zimmermann's case, he hasn't pitched enough for ERA to be very useful as a predictor.  SIERA is a much better predictor of future ERA given a smallish sample size like Zimm's than ERA is, which is why I care about it, but if it didn't correlate so well with future ERA I wouldn't give a crap about it.

But if you said "by almost any measure" he's a top twenty pitcher, you're wrong.  Zimm's elite in categories related to HR and BB rates, which is obviously a good thing, but that's about it.  He's got below average strikeout rates, has a GB/FB below 1, has an (identical) xFIP and SIERA that aren't top 20, his LOB% is below 70%, he has a negative clutch rating... and, if you want to go really old-school, he has a losing record.  So I'm going to guess that you're calling him top twenty because of his ERA--his low walk rate (5th in the majors among qualified starters) and HR/FB rate (2nd) are much too good for you to just have called him "top twenty."  His potentially regressing in one of those categories isn't a "so what" thing, it's a huge deal because a lot of his value is tied up in his rarely giving up dingers or free passes.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Nationals vs Marlins, Game 1
« Reply #47: July 26, 2011, 03:24:00 PM »
he has a negative clutch rating.

:shock:

Is this an actual metric?  No lolz here, I'm being serious.

Offline Sharp

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Re: Nationals vs Marlins, Game 1
« Reply #48: July 26, 2011, 03:25:22 PM »
:shock:

Is this an actual metric?  No lolz here, I'm being serious.
Yup!  Not one I put much (or any) stock in though, but since Chief said "almost any measure" I decided to throw it in.  It essentially looks at how a player did overall versus how well they did when adjusting for leverage, and rewards or penalizes them if they do better / worse in high-leverage situations than they do ordinarily.

Offline tomterp

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Re: Nationals vs Marlins, Game 1
« Reply #49: July 26, 2011, 03:25:40 PM »
BP's got Zimmermann 16th in WARP at 2.9, and 12th in VORP at 27.7 (among starting pitchers).

That would make him a solid #1 starter so far this year, if you define it as the top 30 starters (one per team average).