Espinosa - need him or bench him?

[Lintyfresh85]

Perhaps strikeouts are over valued by you.

[Slateman]

Perhaps strikeouts are over valued by you.

Perhaps it's because we really don't have anyone better at this point.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

How does Danny keep his job: 174 SO this year and could lead all MLB players by end of yr.

1   Dunn, A   CWS   1B   137   487   82   103   18   0   39   90   98   198   2   1   .211   .342   .489   .831
2   Granderson, C   NYY   CF   144   537   90   126   16   3   39   92   67   175   8   3   .235   .323   .493   .816
3   Espinosa, D   WSH   2B   144   545   75   136   34   2   16   52   40   174   19   6   .250   .315   .407   .722
             

I think your point is that there is a correlation between number of strike outs and the quality of a player.  It might help your point if you included a few guys who missed the all star game besides Danny. 

[blue911]

I think your point is that there is a correlation between number of strike outs and the quality of a player.  It might help your point if you included a few guys who missed the all star game besides Danny. 

I'm of the opinion that whatever is good for the pitcher is bad for the batter. Although I am willing to listen to a counter argument

[JCA-CrystalCity]

I'm of the opinion that whatever is good for the pitcher is bad for the batter. Although I am willing to listen to a counter argument

Haven't you heard of win/win? 

What that chart showed is that productive hitters can strike out a lot.  It doesn't mean striking out is a good thing, but it did not show what the problem is with Espinosa's offense or all around play.  Of the 5 qualified 2d basemen with the lowest strikeout % (all below 12%), how many would you rather have playing 2d for the Nats - Scutaro, Barney, Pedroia, Infante, Altuve?  Other than Pedroia, you'd maybe want Altuve's offense, but probably not the offense plus his defense.

[WhiteWhale]

Haven't you heard of win/win? 

What that chart showed is that productive hitters can strike out a lot.  It doesn't mean striking out is a good thing, but it did not show what the problem is with Espinosa's offense or all around play.  Of the 5 qualified 2d basemen with the lowest strikeout % (all below 12%), how many would you rather have playing 2d for the Nats - Scutaro, Barney, Pedroia, Infante, Altuve?  Other than Pedroia, you'd maybe want Altuve's offense, but probably not the offense plus his defense.

To take it a step further, and not to turn this game day thread into another Espinosa thread, but baseball teams aren't just "what do you do with this position" in a vaccuum. As this team has shown, you have to have skill sets that roll with the punches - adding to JCA, find me 3 guys on one roster you want more for your MI than Desmond/Espi/Lombo.

Before you get crazy with the "You can't make an Espi argument while giving him the benefit of Desmond and a great bench guy" - my contention, is that in the building of a team - yes you can. Asside from a couple of bad throws, Espi filling in at SS was a luxury other teams don't have.

[welch]

To take it a step further, and not to turn this game day thread into another Espinosa thread, but baseball teams aren't just "what do you do with this position" in a vaccuum. As this team has shown, you have to have skill sets that roll with the punches - adding to JCA, find me 3 guys on one roster you want more for your MI than Desmond/Espi/Lombo.

Before you get crazy with the "You can't make an Espi argument while giving him the benefit of Desmond and a great bench guy" - my contention, is that in the building of a team - yes you can. Asside from a couple of bad throws, Espi filling in at SS was a luxury other teams don't have.

Yes * 2.

I don;t like Espi's strikeouts, since I think a K is the worst hitting outcome. GIDP depends on bad luck...somebody on base, etc. K is a flat nothing.

However, Espi seems to have improved his hitting...he was hitting about .210 most of last season.  Can hit homers.

Fielding is beyond criticism. Combined with Lombo and Desmond, the Nats have the best middle infield in baseball. And I see a lot of Jeter and Cano...great, but getting older, and who is the third player?

[Slateman]

Yes * 2.

I don;t like Espi's strikeouts, since I think a K is the worst hitting outcome. GIDP depends on bad luck...somebody on base, etc. K is a flat nothing.

However, Espi seems to have improved his hitting...he was hitting about .210 most of last season.  Can hit homers.

Fielding is beyond criticism. Combined with Lombo and Desmond, the Nats have the best middle infield in baseball. And I see a lot of Jeter and Cano...great, but getting older, and who is the third player?

You say we have the best middle infield in baseball, and then you say Jeter and Cano ... wtf

[JCA-CrystalCity]

I suppose one could look at SS + 2B UZR or DRS and put a number on the Nats infield vs. others.  You could do wRAA or WAR if you wanted to compare offenses or some sort "wins" calculation.

Defensively, we are tied for 3d in 2d base UZR at 10.4, with the Twins.  Ahead of us are Cubs (11.2) and the Mariners (13.4).
At SS, we are tied for 4th with the Os, at 9.1, behind the Pirates (16.3), the Mariners (14.6), and the Tigers (10.0).
Pirates have a 1.6 from 2d, Tigers have an 0.4.   UZR does not like the Cubs SS (-2.1).

So, just by UZR, it'd be the Mariners (28.0), then the Nats (19.5), and the Pirates (17.9).

DRS does not like us as much.  We are middle of the pack.  mariners are still near the top.

[hammondsnats]

he played well yesterday. 

[wpa2629]

Bar keep, a round of cortisone shots for me and all my friends

[welch]

You say we have the best middle infield in baseball, and then you say Jeter and Cano ... wtf

Yes. I'm saying that Jeter is slowing down, Cano is good, and the Yankees have no one like Lombo. No team goes through a season without injuries, but the Nats gained ground in August. To my mind, a middle infield is three guys...not just two irreplaceable starters.

(Also means I've watched Jeter since he was a rookie; seen all the 2Bs with him: Knoblach, Soriano, Cano, and a bunch of guys no one remembers. So I'm giving first-hand opinion, and I have always liked Jeter. Sad to see him nearing the end. Desmond and Espi make plays that Jeter can't anymore, although Jeter is one of the smartest ballplayers in the game, and that matters. Meanwhile, Desmond sometimes misses the routine play, but none of the Nats trio make dumb plays, or panic under pressure...something other infielders do.)

[Slateman]

Ian Dessmond WAR: 4.7
Derek Jeter WAR: 3.5

Danny Espinosa WAR: 3.8
Robinson Cano WAR: 6.4

11.1 > 7.3

Yeaaaaa....

[sportsfan882]

what is 7.3? Espinosa and Desmond's totals equal 8.5

[Lintyfresh85]

9.9 versus 8.5 come on Slate... Step your math game up.

[Slateman]

Meh, whatever. Jarhead don't do math

I would trade either one of our middle infielders for Cano

[Minty Fresh]

Bar keep, a round of cortisone shots for me and all my friends