Author Topic: Nationals @ Astros, Game 3  (Read 32262 times)

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Offline houston-nat

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Re: Nationals @ Astros, Game 3
« Reply #775: July 20, 2011, 06:33:52 PM »

Offline houston-nat

  • Posts: 19050
Re: Nationals @ Astros, Game 3
« Reply #776: July 20, 2011, 06:42:59 PM »
@HoustonNat, you haven't become a fan of spotted dick and bangers and mash?  Neeps and tatties?  Bubble and squeak?

I think the underlying reason the British Empire came to exist was the urgent need to flee the cooking. 

Bangers and mash can range from sucky to really, really good. Bubble and squeak is awesome. I've never seen spotted dick on a menu and have no clue what neeps and tatties are.

English food is better than I thought, but the curry definitely helped.

Offline shoeshineboy

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Re: Nationals @ Astros, Game 3
« Reply #777: July 20, 2011, 06:49:33 PM »
It's really too bad that our general manager's huge ego and our former manager's greed got us to this point.  This was a good baseball team before that whole mess.

That's such BS. This team struggled all year and went on an improbable series of wins in one two-week stretch to get them to one game above .500. They're still a better team now than before then. They've basically scored almost as many runs as they've yielded which makes them a slightly less than a .500 team, which is where they belong. They'll likely finish in the mid seventies in wins, which was expected prior to the season. The team is as good as the talent they have which is mediocre overall. They had good games and bad games during the first half of the season, and they've had good and bad since. Using the big winning streak prior to Riggleman resigning as a gauge of how good this team was is just plain ludicrous. You can continue to delude yourself with the fiction about what happen with Riggleman's resignation, but it doesn't change the facts. Riggleman wasn't going to be the long-term guy, and Riggleman didn't want to stay unless he was given a longer-term commitment. So he quit. End of story. It wasn't ego, it wasn't a debacle, it was two sides who wanted different things and parted ways. Get over it.

Offline Frau Mau

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Re: Nationals @ Astros, Game 3
« Reply #778: July 20, 2011, 06:53:39 PM »
SSB, don't waste your typing, S37 would argue with a door (and think it was arguing back).

Offline houston-nat

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Re: Nationals @ Astros, Game 3
« Reply #779: July 20, 2011, 07:01:22 PM »
That's such BS. This team struggled all year and went on an improbable series of wins in one two-week stretch to get them to one game above .500. They're still a better team now than before then. They've basically scored almost as many runs as they've yielded which makes them a slightly less than a .500 team, which is where they belong. They'll likely finish in the mid seventies in wins, which was expected prior to the season. The team is as good as the talent they have which is mediocre overall. They had good games and bad games during the first half of the season, and they've had good and bad since. Using the big winning streak prior to Riggleman resigning as a gauge of how good this team was is just plain ludicrous.

Truer words were never wasted. Bravo, sir.

Talking to Strasburg37 is like preaching to the choir, only you're actually preaching to the congregation and the congregation is just throwing paper airplanes at your eyeball.

Offline Gleason2

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Re: Nationals @ Astros, Game 3
« Reply #780: July 20, 2011, 07:07:39 PM »
If we can sweep LA, we'll come back home 1 game over .500 correct? I'm just hoping for 2 of 3 to come back home .500

If the Nats take 2 of 3 in LA, they'll come home 1 game under .500 (50-51).  They're 48-50 right now.

Offline PC

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Re: Nationals @ Astros, Game 3
« Reply #781: July 20, 2011, 07:18:09 PM »
The team is as good as the talent they have which is mediocre overall.

Copout.  The talent is much more mediocre than it need be.  There are better players in the organization than are currently on the 25-man roster.

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: Nationals @ Astros, Game 3
« Reply #782: July 20, 2011, 07:29:54 PM »
We just lost a series to the freakin astros

Offline houston-nat

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Re: Nationals @ Astros, Game 3
« Reply #783: July 20, 2011, 07:34:52 PM »
We just lost a series to the freakin astros

That's because the Astros have Brisket Power!



Offline Fan037

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Re: Nationals @ Astros, Game 3
« Reply #784: July 20, 2011, 08:00:28 PM »
It was a good day for Jason Werth.  I never thought I'd say that.

Offline Frau Mau

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Re: Nationals @ Astros, Game 3
« Reply #785: July 20, 2011, 08:07:47 PM »
It was a good day for Jason Werth.  I never thought I'd say that.

If he can start playing like that, and actually get some hitting support from the team, the end of this season could be really exciting to watch. I mean, I'll watch either way, but this would be really cool.

Offline Kentucky_National

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Re: Nationals @ Astros, Game 3
« Reply #786: July 20, 2011, 08:17:05 PM »
At least the Marlins are down 13-0 in the 2nd. Makes me feel a little better about myself.

Offline shoeshineboy

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Re: Nationals @ Astros, Game 3
« Reply #787: July 20, 2011, 08:32:02 PM »
Copout.  The talent is much more mediocre than it need be.  There are better players in the organization than are currently on the 25-man roster.

Perhaps, but that is not the result of the manager whoever it is. The impact of a manager is overrated. The players dictate what happens in games. It begins with starting pitching, and depends on an offense that can put together something resembling a threat. The only thing a manager can do to change the talent he is given is to play it and expose it. Regardless, I don't think the organization is flush with much talent that would make any real impact on this team at the moment. Someone would have to replace an everyday player to have an impact. So perhaps someone to replace Desmond's bat, but his glove has value. Clearly Matt Stairs has no business being on the team, and could probably replaced by anyone. But young players with no big league experience don't typically succeed in a PH role. And despite the public fellating of Balester, he isn't the messiah from a bullpen perspective.

That said, even though I doubt we have much in the organization now that would make a significant impact on the current roster if changes were made, whatever impact that may have is dependent on the GM to construct. We can't judge what could be, only what is there. And this team, while better than past years, is a team that should be expected to battle for .500 not battle for a playoff spot.

Offline PC

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Re: Nationals @ Astros, Game 3
« Reply #788: July 20, 2011, 11:25:51 PM »
Yes, if the best players in the organization were on the 25-man roster and the deadwood was cut away, we'd probably win just a few more games based on the rise in the talent level.  This series, for example, if Balestar (me starting the public fellating) were on the mound instead of Coffey, I say we'd one one of the last two games or, at the very least, he wouldn't have given up the game-winning runs, one of those times.  Today's 7-pitch, 3-hit gem by Coffey...some docotoral student should write their thesis on it.   :?

My larger point, though, and this is ALL mindfact, bad players, collectively, make the team worse than their individual badness would dictate.  In other words, we lose more games by bad players feeding off each other, increasing the losing inertia than we should by their individual lack of talent, sort of the whole of badness is greater than the badness of the sum of the individual parts (players).  So the net positive as far as wins go would be greater by having fewer bad players then just replacing them with better players.

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: Nationals @ Astros, Game 3
« Reply #789: July 20, 2011, 11:37:39 PM »
46 hours til our next game

Offline shoeshineboy

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Re: Nationals @ Astros, Game 3
« Reply #790: July 21, 2011, 08:52:26 AM »
Yes, if the best players in the organization were on the 25-man roster and the deadwood was cut away, we'd probably win just a few more games based on the rise in the talent level.  This series, for example, if Balestar (me starting the public fellating) were on the mound instead of Coffey, I say we'd one one of the last two games or, at the very least, he wouldn't have given up the game-winning runs, one of those times.  Today's 7-pitch, 3-hit gem by Coffey...some docotoral student should write their thesis on it.   :?

My larger point, though, and this is ALL mindfact, bad players, collectively, make the team worse than their individual badness would dictate.  In other words, we lose more games by bad players feeding off each other, increasing the losing inertia than we should by their individual lack of talent, sort of the whole of badness is greater than the badness of the sum of the individual parts (players).  So the net positive as far as wins go would be greater by having fewer bad players then just replacing them with better players.

Regarding the Balester comment first, just to get that out of the way, we can all mindfact that he would perform better than Coffey, but the facts are that in the chances he has been given this season, pretty much all of his collective numbers are worse than Coffeys. Win %, ERA, WHIP, HR/9, K/9, BB/9, SO/BB. All worse. One could argue that it is all because of a few bad games. Well, those matter, and Balester has yielded ERs in a greater percentage of game appearances this year than Coffey has. It'd be nice to think that a guy would definitely do better in a particular cherry picked game than another guy, but there is no way to know. Coffey's not a great reliever by any stretch. But in limited chances, Balester hasn't shown he can do better. Over time, would be be better? Potentially. And personally, I'm in the camp of wanting to see him get an extended chance. But the facts remain that he hasn't done anything to show that he would be expected to do better than another guy in any given appearance.

Regardless, I don't think you were really suggesting that replacing Coffey with Balester would somehow have a significant impact on the overall record one way or another.

Your greater point, I agree with. I am a big believer in addition by subtraction. For instance, the return of Zimmerman, while a great addition to the lineup and defense, was less of an addition than it would be if RZ didn't have his struggles. However, replacing an inferior player in the lineup was significant. The problem is that in order to have that incremental change make a difference, you need to either completely replace a bench (and I would argue that Hairston, Nix, Ankiel, Cora collectively make up an incremental improvement over our bench last season) or replace an everyday player. Replacing one guy on the bench is likely to have limited impact, even if that replacement is for Stairs. The question is who replaces him. They are not likely to replace him with a young rookie, although I wouldn't mind seeing it. So in terms of replacing the everyday players, who would you like to see? Should we replace Desmond with Lombardozzi and move Espy to SS? Not debating the merits of that move, but just wondering what the significant moves would be that would amount to a significant upgrade across the board. Sorry, but while I would trade Coffey and replace him with Balester, and potentially bring up Marrero or someone else to replace Stairs, I am not sure that wins a significant number of games by comparison. I wouldn't mind seeing some significant changes though. Just don't know who you have in mind.

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: Nationals @ Astros, Game 3
« Reply #791: July 21, 2011, 10:51:40 AM »
No, it's because you were actively rooting against the team in this thread.  You wanted Clippard to lose the game and said so. 

See ya later...

DOPE.

What if he gives up a bomb right here?

Who cares who's boys are who's?  Just win the game.

If so, I want a full mea culpa from YOU KNOW WHO....

Nowhere - absolutely nowhere did I actively root against the team or Tyler Clippard.

Dude needs a second banning.

And we won our game 14-2 yesterday.  :woop:

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: Nationals @ Astros, Game 3
« Reply #792: July 21, 2011, 12:05:45 PM »
34 hours until our next game :(

Offline houston-nat

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Re: Nationals @ Astros, Game 3
« Reply #793: July 21, 2011, 12:20:17 PM »
34 hours until our next game :(

31 days until I can have this


Offline Spinman

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Re: Nationals @ Astros, Game 3
« Reply #794: July 21, 2011, 02:57:26 PM »
Regarding the Balester comment first, just to get that out of the way, we can all mindfact that he would perform better than Coffey, but the facts are that in the chances he has been given this season, pretty much all of his collective numbers are worse than Coffeys. Win %, ERA, WHIP, HR/9, K/9, BB/9, SO/BB. All worse. One could argue that it is all because of a few bad games. Well, those matter, and Balester has yielded ERs in a greater percentage of game appearances this year than Coffey has. It'd be nice to think that a guy would definitely do better in a particular cherry picked game than another guy, but there is no way to know. Coffey's not a great reliever by any stretch. But in limited chances, Balester hasn't shown he can do better. Over time, would be be better? Potentially. And personally, I'm in the camp of wanting to see him get an extended chance. But the facts remain that he hasn't done anything to show that he would be expected to do better than another guy in any given appearance.

Regardless, I don't think you were really suggesting that replacing Coffey with Balester would somehow have a significant impact on the overall record one way or another.

Your greater point, I agree with. I am a big believer in addition by subtraction. For instance, the return of Zimmerman, while a great addition to the lineup and defense, was less of an addition than it would be if RZ didn't have his struggles. However, replacing an inferior player in the lineup was significant. The problem is that in order to have that incremental change make a difference, you need to either completely replace a bench (and I would argue that Hairston, Nix, Ankiel, Cora collectively make up an incremental improvement over our bench last season) or replace an everyday player. Replacing one guy on the bench is likely to have limited impact, even if that replacement is for Stairs. The question is who replaces him. They are not likely to replace him with a young rookie, although I wouldn't mind seeing it. So in terms of replacing the everyday players, who would you like to see? Should we replace Desmond with Lombardozzi and move Espy to SS? Not debating the merits of that move, but just wondering what the significant moves would be that would amount to a significant upgrade across the board. Sorry, but while I would trade Coffey and replace him with Balester, and potentially bring up Marrero or someone else to replace Stairs, I am not sure that wins a significant number of games by comparison. I wouldn't mind seeing some significant changes though. Just don't know who you have in mind.
If you combine last season stats as a reliever and this years stats Balester should have been on the team from Spring Training. Of course I am biased but lets be real, Broderick, Gaudin make the team instead of Collin? I don't think so.

 If it were arbitraion time they can only look at the last 2 years of a players career ( in that same role) as the measuring stick.   If Bally is given a chance to stay the rest of the year he will put up awesome numbers instead of watching what time his flight leaves for Syracuse.
 8 MLB games this season is in no way a good sample of what he can do.

Offline shoeshineboy

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Re: Nationals @ Astros, Game 3
« Reply #795: July 21, 2011, 03:44:43 PM »
8 MLB games this season is in no way a good sample of what he can do.

Agree 100%. My point was that it can't be assumed that if he was pitching in the exact same situations as Coffey, he would have succeeded where Coffey failed. That's an improper assumption on the face of it as there are no guarantees of anything. But it is made all the more ridiculous when the actual stats of appearances support the counter argument. Bottomline, Balester's FB and sick curve need an extended period of performance in the majors to gauge his effectiveness. He will win some and lose some like anyone else, but his ceiling will be determined after an extended show. He just needs to get off the option train. I would expect Coffey to be traded for whatever we can get by the deadline, and then Bally can be in for the duration.

regarding combining last seasons with this seasons on a decision about making the roster out of ST, you can't combine stats that hadn't yet occurred.

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Nationals @ Astros, Game 3
« Reply #796: July 21, 2011, 06:25:13 PM »
I would expect Coffey to be traded for whatever we can get by the deadline, and then Bally can be in for the duration.

Well continuing to trot Coffey out there so much when he's in the middle of this crapheap of a "slump" is no way to guarantee that!  Are we trying to SCARE teams away or get them to trade for Coffey?

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: Nationals @ Astros, Game 3
« Reply #797: July 21, 2011, 06:25:45 PM »
27.5 hours :hang:

Offline houston-nat

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Re: Nationals @ Astros, Game 3
« Reply #798: July 21, 2011, 06:31:05 PM »
27.5 hours :hang:

You really don't have anything else to do, do you?

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: Nationals @ Astros, Game 3
« Reply #799: July 21, 2011, 06:40:00 PM »
You really don't have anything else to do, do you?

sorry i don't enjoy the stench of losing baseball for this long period.  you must not be a nats fan 8)