A Two Game Series to remind us Why the Milledge Trade was a Disaster!

[oakviewnatfan]

These last two games were "Prima Facia" evidence why the Milledge trade was a disaster for the Nats.  Here are the reasons.
1) Church has become a solid "LEFT-Handed" power hittering outfielder as expected with three years left before Free Agency.
2) Schneider was clearly the defensive stalwart and pitcher handler that
this year's Nats staff clearly misses in addition to being a "LEFT-Handed bat.
3) We wasted 6.5 M trying to replace him with LoDuca & Estrada.
4) Never make a team in YOUR Division a trade that makes them better defensively and fills huge needs for them.
5) Milledge is a fine player but a defensive liability in CF and not worth
what we gave up especially to the METS!
6) The trade for Dukes is the right kind of trade that you make for a prospect with potential.  Send them a prospect from your depth(pitching) and make the team in the other league.

[The Chief]

Church is playing over his head IMO, if he had a full season of ABs he would level out just like he did here.  And even if he is a superstud as Tomterp frequently reminds us, he would be playing indepedent league seniors softball with the aid of a walker by the time he could actually help us do something meaningful, so who cares?

There's still a long time left before you can truly judge whether this was a bad trade or not.  I will agree that trading within the division is obnoxious, however.  I can't stand watching these hacks go out and perform for the Mets when they obviously weren't trying here, or are just headcases.

[PANatsFan]

These last two games were "Prima Facia" evidence why the Milledge trade was a disaster for the Nats.  Here are the reasons.
1) Church has become a solid "LEFT-Handed" power hittering outfielder as expected with three years left before Free Agency.
2) Schneider was clearly the defensive stalwart and pitcher handler that
this year's Nats staff clearly misses in addition to being a "LEFT-Handed bat.
3) We wasted 6.5 M trying to replace him with LoDuca & Estrada.
4) Never make a team in YOUR Division a trade that makes them better defensively and fills huge needs for them.
5) Milledge is a fine player but a defensive liability in CF and not worth
what we gave up especially to the METS!
6) The trade for Dukes is the right kind of trade that you make for a prospect with potential.  Send them a prospect from your depth(pitching) and make the team in the other league.

Not this. Aren't both FA's after the season? Don't we have Flores for years to come, plus Nieves as backup? Haven't we been over this before?

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Trading two chronically mediocre players who will soon be exiting their prime for a very young, highly-touted player with five-tool potential was NOT a mistake, and it never should be considered such.

That's a trade you make 10 times out of 10.

I am very skeptical of Milledge, but he's having a very solid second half.  Let's wait and see how he does for the rest of this year and next year.

[UMDNats]

The only bad part of the trade was signing Estrada ad Lo Duca.

Flores has produced more than Schneider in LESS time and Milledge is 23 and has a much higher ceiling than Church.

To think that the trade was a disaster is idiotic and laughable.

[houston-nat]

Ha ha ha!

Surely you can't be serious.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

2) Schneider was clearly the defensive stalwart and pitcher handler that
this year's Nats staff clearly misses

I wonder how long people are going to miss Schneider all because "he calls a darn good game."

[cmdterps44]

alright oakview, give it a rest. Disaster? hell no. Dont you know Milledge is young, alot younger then schneider and church. crap, hes going to be a solid hitter, hes just gotta work on those small errors he makes. Saying it was a disaster is stupid.

[Obed_Marsh]

The ludicrous nature of the man crushes on Dukes sweeping certain segments the board made me forget the jilted Church and Schneider fans pining for their lost players.

[houston-nat]

Wait, there actually were Schneider fans?

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Wait, there actually were Schneider fans?

You have to remind yourself: this is the board where Nook Logan had a fanboy.

Oh, Mike Bacsik had one too.

[Minty Fresh]

(Image removed from quote.)

Church is playing over his head IMO, if he had a full season of ABs he would level out just like he did here.  And even if he is a superstud as Tomterp frequently reminds us, he would be playing indepedent league seniors softball with the aid of a walker by the time he could actually help us do something meaningful, so who cares?

There's still a long time left before you can truly judge whether this was a bad trade or not.  I will agree that trading within the division is obnoxious, however.  I can't stand watching these hacks go out and perform for the Mets when they obviously weren't trying here, or are just headcases.

Plus, don't we think they may be in a bit better frame of mind playing for a contender?  Church has Reyes, Wright, Beltran and Delgado in his lineup.  We have a bunch of underachieving and injured players passing through the revolving door lineup. 

Can we honestly say Milledge's numbers wouldn't be better if he was hitting in that Mets' lineup?

[Obed_Marsh]

Wait, there actually were Schneider fans?

Search the thread below for Schneider. You'll be
http://www.wnff.net/index.php/topic,411.0.html

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Search the thread below for Schneider. You'll be
http://www.wnff.net/index.php/topic,411.0.html

You have to consider context, though.  That was back in 2005 when: 1. we didn't have so many young, promising players; 2. Schneider was coming off a pretty solid year.

[hammondsnats]

ban?

[wisefan11]

These last two games were "Prima Facia" evidence why the Milledge trade was a disaster for the Nats.  Here are the reasons.
1) Church has become a solid "LEFT-Handed" power hittering outfielder as expected with three years left before Free Agency.
2) Schneider was clearly the defensive stalwart and pitcher handler that
this year's Nats staff clearly misses in addition to being a "LEFT-Handed bat.
3) We wasted 6.5 M trying to replace him with LoDuca & Estrada.
4) Never make a team in YOUR Division a trade that makes them better defensively and fills huge needs for them.
5) Milledge is a fine player but a defensive liability in CF and not worth
what we gave up especially to the METS!
6) The trade for Dukes is the right kind of trade that you make for a prospect with potential.  Send them a prospect from your depth(pitching) and make the team in the other league.

No offense, but man...what a horrible post.

1) Church has 12 homers and 13 doubles this year, not exactly setting the world on fire, even if he were still playing here in Washington. We've gotten more out of Milledge this year than the Mets have out of Church.

2) Stop with this left-handed bat thing, will ya? It doesn't matter if you're left handed if you stink like Schneider. Would you really give up the breakout season Flores has had for one more year of BriSchnei with no center fielder?

3) Lo Duca/Estrada wasn't any money out of your pocket, and it didn't exactly rob us of the chance to sign Mark Texeira. Again, if those guys hadn't busted so hard, we might not have found out about Flores.

4) Please, it's not like if the Mets hadn't had plucky Church and grizzled Scheider we'd be nipping their heels for the division right now. Church against Milledge is a wash defensively because corner outfield is much easier to play than center. Schneider is a quality defensive catcher but he's a free agent at the end of the season, and we have Milledge for a good while.

5) Milledge isn't even hurting us that much in the field. According to the metric of defensive runs saved, Milledge has a -1.6, meaning he's cost us less than two runs all year! Not to mention this is his first year of playing center full time in the bigs, as the Mutts were using him at corner a good bit. If he can improve his defense through experience enough to not cost us anything at all, and improve a little more with the bat, he'll be a very good centerfielder.

6) How many teams out there do you really think are willing to trade 23 year old 5-tool talents with major league experience for soft tossing lefties straight out of the NYPL? There were obvious extenuating circumstances in that trade. On top of that, it's foolish to limit your trading options when you're the worst team in baseball. We should be willing to do anything possible to make our team better, which is why we made the trade for Milledge, and why we made the trade for Dukes.

[spidernat]

oakviewnatfan = tomterp   The Church wood lives on.

Search the thread below for Schneider. You'll be
http://www.wnff.net/index.php/topic,411.0.html

Only a couple of regulars actually took part in that thread.

[hammondsnats]

Solid post wisefan11.

And I loved Church when he was here, didn't think he got a fair shot, but there's no use of talking about the deal anymore.  Both teams are happy with the trade, but we'll be happier for more years to come as Church turns 30 in a month and Schneider turns 32 in two months. 

Woud I have loved to give up Kearns instead of Church?  Of course.  But right now we have a 23 year old up-and-coming key piece of our future, who in all honesty, has exceeded my first year expectations.   

[shoeshineboy]

Trading two chronically mediocre players who will soon be exiting their prime for a very young, highly-touted player with five-tool potential was NOT a mistake, and it never should be considered such.

That's a trade you make 10 times out of 10.

I am very skeptical of Milledge, but he's having a very solid second half.  Let's wait and see how he does for the rest of this year and next year.

Agreed. It was actually the right trade that both teams given their respective situations should make.

[tomterp]

Church has 12 homers and 13 doubles this year, not exactly setting the world on fire, even if he were still playing here in Washington. We've gotten more out of Milledge this year than the Mets have out of Church.

Church has been injured about half the year, and obviously an injured player is of no value while not on the field (Nick Johnson, anyone?).

However, in 289 PA's, Church's VORP is + 14.5, compared to Milledge's +12.9 in 526 PA's.  Clearly while on the field CHurch has been a signifcantly superior player to Milledge.  The difference between 14.5 and 12.9 is insignicant, but it pretty much says that the players have contributed in roughly equal measures to their teams this season- Church at a much higher rate, but Milledge more time on the field.

One thing that bothers me about Milledge, however, is his horrible productivity with RISP.  He has a head problem in these situations, I hope somebody can figure him out or we'll always be frustrated with his failures in key situations.

[hammondsnats]

One thing that bothers me about Milledge, however, is his horrible productivity with RISP.  He has a head problem in these situations, I hope somebody can figure him out or we'll always be frustrated with his failures in key situations.

Again he is just 23.  I am a Church supporter, hell my dad still wears his jersey to all games and gives me crap from time-to-time when Church does something good and Milledge has a bad night.  While Church will be a nice player for the Mets in the next couple years when they contend, Milledge has shown the flashes this season that one day he could be a very, very good player for us for many years to come. 

[MrMadison]

oh look, another "Church in the Hall of Fame I hate Milledge" thread.

you know what?

freak Church.

he could very well be the greatest player in the history of baseball while he plays for the Mets, but he wasn't here.  while he played for the Nationals he played like a 4th outfielder at best except the first half of 2005.  He whined a lot, and he refused to do things that the team asked him to do in order to improve(like going to the Mexican League in the offseason to work on hitting curveballs). 

when we traded him two seconds after he put on his first Mets uniform he proceeded to, and I quote "do cartwheels when I found out I was traded" and then immediately crap on the entire Nats organization.

so freak him.

all you Church fanboys can go be Mets fans since you love him so damn much.

I'd rather support OUR players, instead of lusting after Ryan Church all the damn time.

and this is coming from someone who spent upwards of 2 years defending the guy while he was here.

[spidernat]

Again he is just 23.  I am a Church supporter, hell my dad still wears his jersey to all games and gives me crap from time-to-time when Church does something good and Milledge has a bad night. 

Your dad is tomterp? That would make 3 from the same family. 

[tomterp]

oakviewnatfan = tomterp   The Church wood lives on.

Haha, bite me.

Church tends to get undervalued by many, I sometimes am the lone voice of reason here.   

Despite missing Church's bat, I never complained about the trade.  Getting the younger Milledge gave the Nats more long term upside, something we lack in abundance.  Schneider was solid, but again Flores has better potential long term benefit.  I still think it was the right thing to do, but  in 2008, Schneider + Church probably have a slight edge over Milledge vs. Flores in terms of total contribution.  As the next few years roll by, hopefully we'll see the upside we are hoping for.

[spidernat]

Church tends to get undervalued by many, I sometimes am the lone voice of reason here.   

I think the other side of that is that Church also gets OVERVALUED by some.

Haha, bite me.

Not only gross but g-ay (so as not to offend PANatsFan).