Giants and Mitchell Report revelations

[Nat of the Living Dead]

Who is Gerry Fraley and how does he know so much? At this point all this is just speculation.

Even though it makes sense for the Nats to trade either Young or Johnson (If healthy). Given Bowden's history, he'll trade whoever will return the greater value.

I would like to believe that but really, what are we going to get for either NJ, who is injury prone or Dmitri who is in the last legs of his career, can't play 1B all that well, and has his own set of health problems?  I don't see the return being all that much unless an AL team is begging for a DH.

JimBo had a golden opportunity last trade deadline to trade Dmitri.  Young's stock was never higher and its doubtful it will reach that point again without a miracle. But he didn't pull the trigger.

But you are right, I blogged on this as well and basically said the same thing:  Who the hell is Gerry Fraley?

[spidernat]

A team without leadership is going to go nowhere.

You know, you can still have a team of great hitters, fielders and pitchers and STILL NOT WIN IT ALL.

HMM.  NYY come to mind.  Heck, they haven't won a world series in Years.  And everyone said, just get A-Rod, and we're series bound!

2004 REDSOX - Weren't supposed to beat the All mighty Yanks with their curses and such.

Hmm 95 - Pirates and Braves.  Hmm I vaguely remember how the Pirates was supposed to win that one.

Lets go even FURTHER BACK - 1924 - Giants vs Senators.  We weren't supposed to win that one either.

Seems to me your theory of only having good high priced players on a team doesn't necessarily = WINNING which is SOOOOOO important to you.

I vaguely remember a ragtag group of ameture hockey players in 1980 that played a PROFESSIONAL Russian Hockey Team.  NO WAY were they supposed to win.  They did!  Why because of teamwork and a coach which led them to believe in themselves. 

I think you're  :stupid:


 

Was this posted in the wrong thread because it doesn't seem to fit the flow of this discussion?

[tomterp]

Even though it makes sense for the Nats to trade either Young or Johnson (If healthy). Given Bowden's history, he'll trade whoever will return the greater value.

There's no question that when healthy, NJ is expected to be the superior player to Dmitri, especially given the disparity in ages.  But it's also probable that over the next two years, Dmitri will have more at-bats than Nick, based on health history.  I see where Bowden is coming from here.  If Nick gets back to being his normal productive self for a few months, he's one of the top 10 offensive 1st basemen in all baseball, and that's a big pool of teams that would take a chance on his health to get the production.

On the other hand, Dmitri is a more modest offensive force, and I really think his trade value is further discounted due to his history of personal problems.  Nick has no such issues.  So you sacrifice some production (Nick > Dmitri) in order to go with the more durable player, and deal the player with the greater trade value. 

There's also the very public commitment they've made to try to get Dukes under control, and Dmitri's assigned role in that process is not something they are going to want to toss out the window too quickly, at least until it's seen how well that is working.

I love Nick and will hate to see him go, but it may end up being what's best for the team.

[spidernat]

and that's a big pool of teams that would take a chance on his health to get the production.

Do you really think that's the case? I just don't see it but I hope you're right? I really don't see either of those 2 bringing back anything of value but I guess you never know.

[blue911]

Do you really think that's the case? I just don't see it but I hope you're right? I really don't see either of those 2 bringing back anything of value but I guess you never know.

Johnson is the poster boy for Moneyball.

[tomterp]

Do you really think that's the case? I just don't see it but I hope you're right? I really don't see either of those 2 bringing back anything of value but I guess you never know.

It depends on how GM's view Nick's injury.  They may see it as a fluke, and decide he's well worth a bet on the future.  I don't think there would be a lot of interest in Dmitri due to age and past history, plus his 2007 was a spike in production that is probably not his going forward rate.  Still, both these guys would have substantial value.  Here's the 2007 1st basemen top 30, to which I've slotted in Nick's 2006 season for comparison.  Nick was 5th in 2006, would have been 6th vs. 2007.  The point is, Nick is a premier offensive first baseman, and if he gets back to his 2006 level of production, he'd be an upgrade to about 25 teams.


EDIT:  I noticed after posting that Teixeira's VORP is split between the two teams he played for in 2007.  If combined he's top 5 ahead of Nick.


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[Nat of the Living Dead]

We also have to remember that Chris Marrero is on the radar, especially if he continues to develop as he is.  Both NJ and Young will be out of the job if Marrero works out.  So in like two or so years this debate might very well be laughable.

But until then, I am one who wants as much production as possible and would be willing to risk the production from NJ rather than settle on Young just based on he is wiping the nose of some snot nosed rookies.  Young never was in the big picture, he never will be, so why do we even pretend.

[CALSGR8]

Was this posted in the wrong thread because it doesn't seem to fit the flow of this discussion?

yEAH, THAT'S WEIRD.

Actually not.  Spider was putting down Kimnat in an earlier post.  I was putting my 2 cents worth.

[CALSGR8]

I think he has been called out on that in the past (by some parties) because even before the season began last year he clearly wanted Lee to be named the 1st baseman instead of wanting the best man to win the job.




[url=http://www.plasticsurgery-texas.com/]




  :stupid:


Memo to kimnat: That's what sports is about! WINNING! That's why you compete, to WIN! That's why we (you included) celebrate curly W's! That's the objective of competition and sports. Hopefully that's what our FO is interested in! Anything short of this goal is a loser's mentality. If you don't like the fact that sports is about winning then maybe sports isn't for you. Shopping may be a good hobby for you. I hear women like shopping.

It was in response to this!

[spidernat]

NJ's OBP has been missed but it still remains that his OBP from the DL is .000

We also have to remember that Chris Marrero is on the radar, especially if he continues to develop as he is. 

I hope so.

[spidernat]

yEAH, THAT'S WEIRD.

Actually not.  Spider was putting down Kimnat in an earlier post. 

My comment was that sports is about winning games. Where the hell did I say anything about having the greatest hitters, fielders and pitchers guarantees winning a WS? And what does my desire to see a winning team have to do with the 1980 US hockey team or the 1924 Washington Senators or that the Yankees haven't won a WS in YEARS?     It's laughable to mention that the Yankees are in a 7 year WS drought to prove a point about how the greatest of everything doesn't guarantee WS titles because a team needs leadership. Weren't you one of the ones praising Joe Torre for being a great manager? Or putting down the Yankees for getting rid of a great manager? But to address that idiocy I ask, who here doesn't want great hitters, fielders and pitchers on the Nationals?

[sportsfan882]

NJ is the best overall hitter on the team, at least when he is healthy.   

[tomterp]

We also have to remember that Chris Marrero is on the radar, especially if he continues to develop as he is.  Both NJ and Young will be out of the job if Marrero works out.  So in like two or so years this debate might very well be laughable.

But until then, I am one who wants as much production as possible and would be willing to risk the production from NJ rather than settle on Young just based on he is wiping the nose of some snot nosed rookies.  Young never was in the big picture, he never will be, so why do we even pretend.

Agree on Marrero.  And if Nick is healthy, he's going to be getting the lion's share of at-bats at first unless and until he goes down again.  Meanwhile, if you have another better than average offensive first baseman (Young) available for occasional starts and as your primary big bat off the bench, the Nats could be a bit scary. 

All I'm saying is, that NJ is the one of the two who has the most trade appeal, and so it's entirely possible that Bowden deals him for something nice and keeps Young at first for two more years or until Marrero is ready.  It's good that we are in that position, since aside from either Cordero or Rauch we don't have much left to deal.  We need bargaining chips and a healthy Nick gives us a prime one.

[shoeshineboy]

Agree on Marrero.  And if Nick is healthy, he's going to be getting the lion's share of at-bats at first unless and until he goes down again.  Meanwhile, if you have another better than average offensive first baseman (Young) available for occasional starts and as your primary big bat off the bench, the Nats could be a bit scary. 

All I'm saying is, that NJ is the one of the two who has the most trade appeal, and so it's entirely possible that Bowden deals him for something nice and keeps Young at first for two more years or until Marrero is ready.  It's good that we are in that position, since aside from either Cordero or Rauch we don't have much left to deal.  We need bargaining chips and a healthy Nick gives us a prime one.

Yeah, I want both NJ and Young healthy. But you never give up an opportunity to improve your team. Given the contract statuses, you have to at least consider all offers for either one. And it is certainly true that NJ could be great trade bait if he returns to form. But we have to have another option at 1B besides Young. That could be a guy like Whitesell, or it could be one of the rule 5 guys they picked up. This may be clearer after ST. The future is certainly a guy like Marrero, so some deal over the next year or two is highly likely prior to the contracts for Young and Johnson running out.