Author Topic: The Big Hurt hits 500  (Read 1042 times)

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Offline JMW IV

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The Big Hurt hits 500
« Topic Start: June 29, 2007, 10:43:24 AM »
Since no one is showing love for my favorite player of all time, figured i'd congratulate Frank Thomas on his milestone while the rest of you go gaga over biggio

Offline Dave B

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Re: The Big Hurt hits 500
« Reply #1: June 29, 2007, 11:05:33 AM »
if it is any consolation, i dont care about either milestone.

crap i thought biggio got 3000 hits against the nats alone in 2005.  IIRC, he and willy taveras were on base 95% of the time

Offline mikehughes

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Re: The Big Hurt hits 500
« Reply #2: June 29, 2007, 11:06:46 AM »
Congrats to Frank Thomas on #500

Offline shoeshineboy

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Re: The Big Hurt hits 500
« Reply #3: June 29, 2007, 11:20:06 AM »
Since no one is showing love for my favorite player of all time, figured i'd congratulate Frank Thomas on his milestone while the rest of you go gaga over biggio

Frank is still a beast of a player. He needed no milestone.

Offline The Chief

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Re: The Big Hurt hits 500
« Reply #4: June 29, 2007, 01:41:15 PM »
Actually I was just talking about Frank Thomas' 500th with a friend of mine yesterday, I just haven't been on the forum that much this week with all the new job orientation stuff going on.

Offline Kenz aFan

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Re: The Big Hurt hits 500
« Reply #5: June 29, 2007, 01:58:12 PM »
Frank is still a beast of a player. He needed no milestone.

In my books, he didn't or doesn't need a milestone, and I agree 100% with your, he's a beast of a player statement

Offline ronnynat

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Re: The Big Hurt hits 500
« Reply #6: June 29, 2007, 02:24:25 PM »
Frank and Griffey were my favorites for quite a while. Both deserve to be first ballot HOFs.

Offline 2k6nats

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Re: The Big Hurt hits 500
« Reply #7: June 29, 2007, 05:57:53 PM »
Frank and Griffey were my favorites for quite a while. Both deserve to be first ballot HOFs.

Thomas won't be a first-ballot HOFer, or at least I don't think he should be.  Griffey will be, without a doubt.

Offline soxfan59

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Re: The Big Hurt hits 500
« Reply #8: June 30, 2007, 01:47:42 PM »
Thomas won't be a first-ballot HOFer, or at least I don't think he should be.  Griffey will be, without a doubt.

Big Frank is my all time favorite player, at least of those who I have had the pleasure of being an eye witness. 

I argue that he does deserve to be a first ballot hall of famer. 

Why?

He is one of the greatest right handed hitters in baseball history, period. 

Take a look at his lifetime stats.

On base percentage:  He is tied for 16th all time, but is 3rd best right hander (only Foxx and Hornsby are ahead of him)

Slg %:  18th all time, 11th right handed eleventh

OPS:  11th all time, 6th right handed

BB:  12th all time, 3rd best right handed

RBIs:  26th all time, 12th right handed.

As for a combination of these stats, Thomas is the only hitter in MLB history -- THE ONLY ONE -- to hit hit better than .300 with at least 20 home runs, 100 RBI, 100 walks and 100 runs scored for seven consecutive seasons. Only Lou Gehrig, Ted Williams and Jason Giambi have accomplished that feat for as many as four consecutive seasons.

The only reason not to elect Frank on the first ballot is the fact that he has played a little more than half his games at DH, and perhaps his less then warm and congenial personality. 

I think the numbers speak for themselves.

Offline ronnynat

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Re: The Big Hurt hits 500
« Reply #9: June 30, 2007, 01:50:20 PM »
agreed with soxfan59

Offline 2k6nats

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Re: The Big Hurt hits 500
« Reply #10: June 30, 2007, 02:06:26 PM »
Yes, but I could compile some stats that would show he doesn't deserve to be a first-ballot...

He has 32 steals over the course of his career, which is less than stellar.

He has only 11 triples over the course of his career, which is also less than stellar.

During his two best HR seasons (43 and 42), he averaged over 100 Ks a year.

Model of consistency?  During his 17 seasons, he only averaged 127 games played.

Offline ronnynat

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Re: The Big Hurt hits 500
« Reply #11: June 30, 2007, 02:11:13 PM »
Yes, but I could compile some stats that would show he doesn't deserve to be a first-ballot...

He has 32 steals over the course of his career, which is less than stellar.

He has only 11 triples over the course of his career, which is also less than stellar.

During his two best HR seasons (43 and 42), he averaged over 100 Ks a year.

Model of consistency?  During his 17 seasons, he only averaged 127 games played.

The steals and triples don't really matter for his consideration. The number of games played matters only if it affects his production. The Ks, I think, are offset by his OBP.

Offline tomterp

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Re: The Big Hurt hits 500
« Reply #12: July 02, 2007, 09:35:09 AM »
Yes, but I could compile some stats that would show he doesn't deserve to be a first-ballot...


This whole first-ballot thing is a bunch of BS.  If a player deserves to be in the Hall, he should get voted in, else not.  As a fan, what's important is whether or not the guy's in the hall, not what ballot he made it in.  Thomas is a slam dunk for the Hall, and no reason to withhold votes just to make some meaningless distinction, and make the guy squirm another year.

Offline joker

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Re: The Big Hurt hits 500
« Reply #13: July 02, 2007, 11:24:23 AM »
he'll get in i am not sure about first ballot, the good thing about the big hurt is that there was nver any steroid allegations

Offline soxfan59

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Re: The Big Hurt hits 500
« Reply #14: July 02, 2007, 03:43:58 PM »
Yes, but I could compile some stats that would show he doesn't deserve to be a first-ballot...

He has 32 steals over the course of his career, which is less than stellar.

He has only 11 triples over the course of his career, which is also less than stellar.

During his two best HR seasons (43 and 42), he averaged over 100 Ks a year.

Model of consistency?  During his 17 seasons, he only averaged 127 games played.

He also doesn't have any sacrifice hits in his career.  Go figure.  Ted Williams had 5 sacs in his career -- 4 in his first two seasons. You don't ask buys who can hit like the Big hurt or the Splendid Splinter to lay one down. 

Besides his three seasons cut short by injury, he averaged about 140 games a year during a so far 18 year career. 

Let's compare Frank to other 1st basemen. 

His stats rank him:

4th all time in OBP.
When you adjust OBP against the OBP for the league, Frank is first all time.

5th all time among 1st basemen for SLG average.
When you adjust SLG against the league, Frank drops to 7th.  Still pretty impressive,

His OPS is 4th all time among 1st baseman, both on its own and league adjusted.

For total average (TA), Frank is 4th all time among 1st baseman, and 3rd when league adjusted.

Career Total bases, Frank is 5th among 1Bmen.  For Runs Created 4th.  For Runs Created per game, he's 4th.  Adjust all 4 of those categories for league averages, and he moves up to 3rd in each category. 

He's now 6th among 1st basemen in HRs.  League adjusted, that's 4th.

For runs, he's 4th among 1st baggers.  League adjusted is 4th too.

RBIs is 5th best, league adjusted, he's 3rd.

Interestingly, among ALL players, Thomas ranks in the top 15 in OBP, OPS, and OPS+, and in the top 20 in SLG%. 

How can you denigrate that kind of superior consistency?