Author Topic: Contenders or Pretenders?  (Read 466 times)

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Online Slateman

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Re: Contenders or Pretenders?
« Reply #25: July 11, 2019, 11:09:56 PM »
The Nats have invested hundreds of millions of dollars into starting pitching. Why is it a bad thing that the pitching is carrying them?
Because that pitching cant pitch the whole game. Even if they go seven innings, this bullpen will surrender a small lead.

Online rileyn

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Re: Contenders or Pretenders?
« Reply #26: July 12, 2019, 06:45:20 AM »
Game Day Mother Freakers!!!   Let's get this 2nd half started.  Does anybody know why it's a 6:00 start tonight?

Offline Scrapple

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Re: Contenders or Pretenders?
« Reply #27: July 12, 2019, 06:46:40 AM »
Because that pitching cant pitch the whole game. Even if they go seven innings, this bullpen will surrender a small lead.
So you are saying we would be better off to not sign Rendon to the “$250,000,000.00” he and Boras are demanding, then utilize that money to bolster the bullpen and get a #5 starter of quality? Can’t say I disagree with that! You come up with some GREAT IDEAS sometimes.  :thumbs:

Go Naaaaaaaaats!!!

Online varoadking

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Re: Contenders or Pretenders?
« Reply #28: July 12, 2019, 08:08:14 AM »
So you are saying we would be better off to not sign Rendon to the “$250,000,000.00” he and Boras are demanding, then utilize that money to bolster the bullpen and get a #5 starter of quality? Can’t say I disagree with that! You come up with some GREAT IDEAS sometimes.  :thumbs:

Go Naaaaaaaaats!!!

Where are you getting the $250MM figure from?

Online Slateman

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Re: Contenders or Pretenders?
« Reply #29: July 12, 2019, 08:39:32 AM »
So you are saying we would be better off to not sign Rendon to the “$250,000,000.00” he and Boras are demanding, then utilize that money to bolster the bullpen and get a #5 starter of quality? Can’t say I disagree with that! You come up with some GREAT IDEAS sometimes.  :thumbs:

Go Naaaaaaaaats!!!

No, you actually need to score more than 2 runs a game.

Offline Scrapple

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Re: Contenders or Pretenders?
« Reply #30: July 12, 2019, 08:44:57 AM »
Where are you getting the $250MM figure from?
Arenado was 8 years $260,000,000.00

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Contenders or Pretenders?
« Reply #31: July 12, 2019, 08:47:57 AM »
Where are you getting the $250MM figure from?
It's probably going to take closer to $200MM to get it done before free agency.  I would guess that a straight, no deferrals, 7 year, $200MM (that is about $28.5MM/yr) would get the job done today.  If they monkey around with deferrals, then the AAV has to go up to more than Arenado ($32.5MM AAV, 8 years, total $260MM).  7 x $33MM gets you to $231MM, which is closer to Scraps $250MM.  The Nats would probably want to defer half that money, like they did with Scherzer.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Contenders or Pretenders?
« Reply #32: July 12, 2019, 08:50:05 AM »
Arenado was 8 years $260,000,000.00
Yes.  If Boras insists on topping that number in annual average or in total dollars, I'm guessing the Nats would say defer half of that money like Scherzer did.  I would prefer 7 years, $200MM with no deferrals.

Offline Scrapple

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Re: Contenders or Pretenders?
« Reply #33: July 12, 2019, 08:51:13 AM »
No, you actually need to score more than 2 runs a game.
So keep Rendon, squeeze the cap, keep this caliber of bullpen, and keep blowing games in the late innings??? How many blown games have we had this year?

Offline Scrapple

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Re: Contenders or Pretenders?
« Reply #34: July 12, 2019, 08:55:35 AM »
Yes.  If Boras insists on topping that number in annual average or in total dollars, I'm guessing the Nats would say defer half of that money like Scherzer did.  I would prefer 7 years, $200MM with no deferrals.
I’m in on that. Okay, let’s sign him.  :cheers:

Online Slateman

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Re: Contenders or Pretenders?
« Reply #35: July 12, 2019, 08:59:07 AM »
So keep Rendon, squeeze the cap, keep this caliber of bullpen, and keep blowing games in the late innings??? How many blown games have we had this year?
The caliber of bullpen isba result of Rizzo's inability to evaluate/develop pitching.

Liam Hendriks, Ryan Pressley, Adam Ottavino, Greg Holland


All could have been had. Instead, Rizzo got Kyle Barraclough and Trevor Rosenthal

There is no cap. And also,  Rendon is already making 18 million. So basically play Keiboom instead of Dozier and  tell Zim he either takes an AAV of 10 million or he plays somewhere else.

Not re-signing Rendon would be this team's death knell

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Contenders or Pretenders?
« Reply #36: July 12, 2019, 09:12:58 AM »
As Slate points out, a 7 year, $200MM contract bumps his pay up about $10MM a year.  With RZ's contract off the books as well as some of the other deals like Dozier's and Rosenthal's, there's money to fit it in and still address other needs.  Having Kieboom take over second base makes this work pretty well. Then the RZ and Rosenthal money can be reallocated to other needs.

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Contenders or Pretenders?
« Reply #37: July 12, 2019, 09:13:42 AM »
The caliber of bullpen isba result of Rizzo's inability to evaluate/develop pitching.

Liam Hendriks, Ryan Pressley, Adam Ottavino, Greg Holland


All could have been had. Instead, Rizzo got Kyle Barraclough and Trevor Rosenthal

There is no cap. And also,  Rendon is already making 18 million. So basically play Keiboom instead of Dozier and  tell Zim he either takes an AAV of 10 million or he plays somewhere else.

Not re-signing Rendon would be this team's death knell
This.

Offline imref

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Re: Contenders or Pretenders?
« Reply #38: July 12, 2019, 09:46:16 AM »
Greg Holland has been pretty awful this season.

Online Slateman

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Re: Contenders or Pretenders?
« Reply #39: July 12, 2019, 09:50:19 AM »
Greg Holland has been pretty awful this season.

Are you sure you're not confusing him with Derek Holland? Greg Holland has a 3.30 ERA with 14 saves this season.

Offline imref

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Re: Contenders or Pretenders?
« Reply #40: July 12, 2019, 10:23:36 AM »
Are you sure you're not confusing him with Derek Holland? Greg Holland has a 3.30 ERA with 14 saves this season.

"Greg" :)  He's pitched to a career worst 4.74 FIP this year and blew 3 of 5 save opportunities at one point in late June/early July.  He's allowed runs in four of his last five outings.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/07/greg-hollands-closer-job-at-risk-after-2nd-consecutive-blown-save.html

Offline Smithian

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Re: Contenders or Pretenders?
« Reply #41: July 12, 2019, 10:24:22 AM »
Someone asserted that it’s a 90-95 win team. It’s not.

It may be enough to squeeze into a wild card. But they are 6 games behind the Braves. A team with a much better lineup but weaker starting pitching.

Winning 2-1 counts the same as 5-4.

It take a combination or bad offense and horrendous relief pitching to squander a trio of Scherzer, Strasburg, and Corbin. Early in the season, the Nats were that uniquely bad.

The Nats don't need wholesale changes. I'd like them to take a flier on some bullpen arms, but I'm happy to take on the second half of the season knowing the Nats are built around an elite starting pitching trio and has a lot of decent offensive pieces around Rendon and Soto. You can win games with that setup.

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: Contenders or Pretenders?
« Reply #42: July 12, 2019, 10:33:24 AM »
The next few weeks will be telling.

Winning 2-1 counts the same as 5-4.

It take a combination or bad offense and horrendous relief pitching to squander a trio of Scherzer, Strasburg, and Corbin. Early in the season, the Nats were that uniquely bad.

The Nats don't need wholesale changes. I'd like them to take a flier on some bullpen arms, but I'm happy to take on the second half of the season knowing the Nats are built around an elite starting pitching trio and has a lot of decent offensive pieces around Rendon and Soto. You can win games with that setup.

Online Slateman

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Re: Contenders or Pretenders?
« Reply #43: July 12, 2019, 11:14:51 AM »
"Greg" :)  He's pitched to a career worst 4.74 FIP this year and blew 3 of 5 save opportunities at one point in late June/early July.  He's allowed runs in four of his last five outings.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/07/greg-hollands-closer-job-at-risk-after-2nd-consecutive-blown-save.html

That is light years better than anyone in this pen not named Doolittle

Offline imref

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Re: Contenders or Pretenders?
« Reply #44: July 12, 2019, 12:26:14 PM »
That is light years better than anyone in this pen not named Doolittle

Holland's last 10 outings: 8.1 IP, 6.48 ERA, 7Ks, 7BBs, opponents hitting .233 / .378 / .467 against him.

Yeah, he'd fit right in. :)

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Contenders or Pretenders?
« Reply #45: July 12, 2019, 01:03:42 PM »
This.

Hendriks wasn't a free agent last winter, so he shouldn't be on the list.

Online Slateman

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Re: Contenders or Pretenders?
« Reply #46: July 12, 2019, 01:37:17 PM »
Hendriks wasn't a free agent last winter, so he shouldn't be on the list.

He was DFA'd. Anyone could have grabbed him.

Online Slateman

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Re: Contenders or Pretenders?
« Reply #47: July 12, 2019, 01:44:21 PM »
Holland's last 10 outings: 8.1 IP, 6.48 ERA, 7Ks, 7BBs, opponents hitting .233 / .378 / .467 against him.

Yeah, he'd fit right in. :)

Do you think the other 21.2 IP with a 2.08 ERA would have been helpful in April and May?

Offline spidernat

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Re: Contenders or Pretenders?
« Reply #48: July 12, 2019, 01:55:41 PM »
Do you think the other 21.2 IP with a 2.08 ERA would have been helpful in April and May?



With Martinez at the helm that ERA is tripled.  :mg: