Author Topic: Expos Throwback Day  (Read 1350 times)

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Offline Baseball is Life

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Re: Expos Throwback Day
« Reply #50: June 27, 2019, 01:06:40 PM »
How would you have felt in 2004 if the Rangers had a Washington Senators day?  The vomit in my mouth at that thought answers the question for me. 

You hit the nail on the head. In 2004 I would have been pissed because I will still steaming because we didn't have a team. Once we got a team, I just don't care if the Rangers do a Senators day.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Expos Throwback Day
« Reply #51: June 27, 2019, 01:36:03 PM »
I think DC Fans have so much apathy for Expos/Nats fans because they were gifted a team with a fairly rich history and they have no memories of it and no ties to it. They just basically inherited the final roster/farm system of that team. They don't like to think of the Nationals as a continuation of the Expos... rather it's their own fresh thing. So I can kind of see it. Expos fans will always be true OG Nats fans. And I think that bothers DC people who've supported the team since Day 1 in 2005.

I think most teams who moved and became another team feel the same way. The Twins and Rangers come to mind.

The Dodgers are different. The kept their name, their colors, the only thing that changed was the B on the hat became LA. And it was so long ago.

Eventually the Expos will become a distant memory. A trivial pursuit question that only real historians get right. Probably happen sooner ff Montreal ever gets another team, which I doubt. Or when Washington actually wins a freaking playoff series.

I think you're certainly right about recently minted Nats fans, but I'm not sure it holds for the originals. 

I'm a DC native who grew up a baseball fan but without a home team because the sleaziness, incompetence, and greed of a small number of rich men who screwed DC out of a team long before I was born and continued the screwing (via a new generation of sleazy rich men) until the 21st century.  I have a huge reserve of empathy for baseball fans in Montreal, both the ones who remain from pre-2004 and the generation born since.   Those people are welcome to share in as much or as little of the Nats' success and pain as they wish.   Especially major respect to the folks who kept showing up at Olympique near the end.  That place was grim sometimes, the weird color lighting, the banging of the seats...

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Expos Throwback Day
« Reply #52: June 27, 2019, 01:40:56 PM »
As a Nats fan I feel celebrating the accomplishments of the Expos and historic Expos players is disrespectful to Montreal. Those memories didn't happen here in DC, they happened somewhere else with entirely different people around - hell, it was in a different country - and for me to be like, "Tim Raines is part of our history!" seems messed up.

I'm sure Montreal will get a team again sooner rather than later, so it feels even more wrong to trot out Vladimir Guerrero as a legend of this team. Vlad came up with the Expos, not the Nationals. Expos fans and Montreal natives have entirely different baseball memories that are in no way associated with my Nationals memories. I'm always amazed at Expos fans who kept following the team when they moved to DC. I guess those people are cool to do whatever. :lmao:

Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

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Re: Expos Throwback Day
« Reply #53: June 27, 2019, 01:57:43 PM »
Most guys on that list became good/great while playing for the Expos.

Pedro won a Cy Young as an Expo, Guerrero cemented his HOF career in Montreal, Dawson same, Grissom's best years were in Montreal, Walker and Alou were All-Stars in Montreal, Carl Pavano and Rueter... not even sure why they made this list,  DeShields best years were as an Expo, Galarraga was a star with the Expos, Rondell and Cliff Floyd are examples of how great the Expos farm system was they both were All Stars as Expos.

The only guy on that list that left Montreal and *then* became great was Randy Johnson who was sent to the Mariners in a trade involving Mark Langston. It even took him a few years in Seattle to work out his control issues but then the rest of course is history.

Exactly.  The Expos were simply victim to not having the budget to keep their talent.  Identifying and developing talent was a clear strength.

Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

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Re: Expos Throwback Day
« Reply #54: June 27, 2019, 02:01:15 PM »
I don't get why Montreal should get a team again.  I grew up an Expos fan as I explained earlier, but from Louisville, KY.  No allegiance to the city of Montreal.  Al I know is they didn't support the team well enough.  All my favorite star players were dealt away because they couldn't afford them.  One year they played 22 "home" games in Puerto Rico.  At one point the team was set to be contracted before ultimately just moving to DC.  What would be different this time?  They'd seemingly be another franchise not supported ala the Marlins and Rays.  In fact, the Rays remind me of today's version of the Expos.  Smart people in that organization putting together talented teams without much payroll at all and with small crowds at home games. 

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Expos Throwback Day
« Reply #55: June 27, 2019, 02:04:14 PM »
I don't get why Montreal should get a team again.  I grew up an Expos fan as I explained earlier, but from Louisville, KY.  No allegiance to the city of Montreal.  Al I know is they didn't support the team well enough.  All my favorite star players were dealt away because they couldn't afford them.  One year they played 22 "home" games in Puerto Rico.  At one point the team was set to be contracted before ultimately just moving to DC.  What would be different this time?  They'd seemingly be another franchise not supported ala the Marlins and Rays.  In fact, the Rays remind me of today's version of the Expos.  Smart people in that organization putting together talented teams without much payroll at all and with small crowds at home games. 

I agree. Montreal should be at the bottom of the group that MLB is looked to expand to. To me they've done nothing to prove they should get a team again, and if they want to be even considered both the city and ownership group should have to prove it is a superior option than the other cities in the running.

Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

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Re: Expos Throwback Day
« Reply #56: June 27, 2019, 02:13:46 PM »
I agree. Montreal should be at the bottom of the group that MLB is looked to expand to. To me they've done nothing to prove they should get a team again, and if they want to be even considered both the city and ownership group should have to prove it is a superior option than the other cities in the running.

I don't like the idea of expansion at all.  Teams already can't find enough pitchers...why further water down the talent pool?  If a city emerges as a viable option to have a team...that should be where the Rays and Marlins go. 

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Expos Throwback Day
« Reply #57: June 27, 2019, 02:15:08 PM »
I don't like the idea of expansion at all.  Teams already can't find enough pitchers...why further water down the talent pool?  If a city emerges as a viable option to have a team...that should be where the Rays and Marlins go. 

I tend to agree, even as a resident of a city that should get a team (Nashville). That said, expansion seems likely. I don't see the Marlins leaving, but Tampa should be out of the state of Florida by 2023 or 2024. What a joke that MLB is considering a dual-city team rather than ripping the band-aid off. 

Offline bluestreak

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Re: Expos Throwback Day
« Reply #58: June 27, 2019, 03:21:28 PM »
Montreal has a long history of supporting pro baseball. Jeffrey Loria and then MLB totally screwed them over.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Expos Throwback Day
« Reply #59: June 27, 2019, 03:29:18 PM »
Montreal has a long history of supporting pro baseball. Jeffrey Loria and then MLB totally screwed them over.

https://exposnation.com/en/montreal-expos-attendance-per-year/

Below the NL average almost every single year since 1969. Is that all Jeffery Loria? I didn't follow them but decades of below-average attendance doesn't really tell me that it's all the owner's fault especially considering he bought the team in what, 1999?

I'm sure the Expos have passionate fans but I don't see how they deserve to get a team again after having one for decades and losing it partly because no one went to games. They clearly were screwed at the end by MLB and Loria but other than a few good runs they couldn't get any fans.

Offline expos1994

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Re: Expos Throwback Day
« Reply #60: June 27, 2019, 03:50:38 PM »
https://exposnation.com/en/montreal-expos-attendance-per-year/

Below the NL average almost every single year since 1969. Is that all Jeffery Loria? I didn't follow them but decades of below-average attendance doesn't really tell me that it's all the owner's fault especially considering he bought the team in what, 1999?

I'm sure the Expos have passionate fans but I don't see how they deserve to get a team again after having one for decades and losing it partly because no one went to games. They clearly were screwed at the end by MLB and Loria but other than a few good runs they couldn't get any fans.

The Expos were on the verge of becoming relevent in 1994. Olympic Stadium was packed every night and the Expos were dominating baseball with the best record and an 8 Game lead on the Braves that year. But after the strike ended that season, the ownership decided to let Larry Walker go to the Rockies, Grissom and Ken Hill were also let go. Then the following year saw Moises Alou leave with his own dad as his manager because they couldn't afford him then Pedro left as soon as he could. The revolving door began and the fans never came back. And that was Jeffrey Loria who owned the team. He ran it into the ground. And then he went and ran the Marlins into the ground too. It's not coincidence that going to a Marlins game has the same cavernous feel that Olympic Stadium had in the final years (minus the rubber playing field).

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Expos Throwback Day
« Reply #61: June 27, 2019, 04:07:57 PM »
The Expos were on the verge of becoming relevent in 1994. Olympic Stadium was packed every night and the Expos were dominating baseball with the best record and an 8 Game lead on the Braves that year. But after the strike ended that season, the ownership decided to let Larry Walker go to the Rockies, Grissom and Ken Hill were also let go. Then the following year saw Moises Alou leave with his own dad as his manager because they couldn't afford him then Pedro left as soon as he could. The revolving door began and the fans never came back. And that was Jeffrey Loria who owned the team. He ran it into the ground. And then he went and ran the Marlins into the ground too. It's not coincidence that going to a Marlins game has the same cavernous feel that Olympic Stadium had in the final years (minus the rubber playing field).

But what about 1969-1994? That's my question. I honestly am uneducated about that but it seems like the team had good fan support/attendance for a handful of years but otherwise was well below average.

Offline bluestreak

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Re: Expos Throwback Day
« Reply #62: June 27, 2019, 05:14:21 PM »
But what about 1969-1994? That's my question. I honestly am uneducated about that but it seems like the team had good fan support/attendance for a handful of years but otherwise was well below average.

I think it's what happens with most teams, when they are good, people show up, when they are bad, people don't. They were really bad and playing in a dump for the first several years. Had a bump when they moved stadiums, and then when they were decent in the 80's they had good attendance.
Compare that to the Rays who don't draw even when they are winning or the Marlins who are bad, but have laughable attendance totals that the Expos haven't hit even in the Puerto Rico days. From your list, there seems to be 16-18,000 fans per game to watch some genuinely bad teams.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Expos Throwback Day
« Reply #63: June 27, 2019, 05:26:20 PM »
Sure, they're not Rays bad, but I don't know if I could call the Expos' history a "long history of supporting baseball." The late-70s to early 80s seem to be their only real competitive run besides 1994 and those were basically also their only decent attendance figures (unsurprisingly).

The Rays also average 14k a game, not that much different than what the Expos did when they were bad, if not better than what the Expos did. It took the Expos 10 years to average more than 20k a game and their first year in team history they were below-average in attendance (you'd think there'd be a new-team bump) and they were also below-average when opening the new stadium in 1977.

If Montreal came back and got a full team I don't know if they'd be a reliable 25k per game attendance team, which would be in the top half of the league. There's enough questions around that IMO that if I was Manfred I'd tell Montreal to prove that they could out-perform cities like Nashville, Charlotte or Portland. What's the point of adding another team that has similar attendance as Pittsburgh or Oakland?

Offline bluestreak

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Re: Expos Throwback Day
« Reply #64: June 27, 2019, 05:43:09 PM »
Sure, they're not Rays bad, but I don't know if I could call the Expos' history a "long history of supporting baseball." The late-70s to early 80s seem to be their only real competitive run besides 1994 and those were basically also their only decent attendance figures (unsurprisingly).

The Rays also average 14k a game, not that much different than what the Expos did when they were bad, if not better than what the Expos did. It took the Expos 10 years to average more than 20k a game and their first year in team history they were below-average in attendance (you'd think there'd be a new-team bump) and they were also below-average when opening the new stadium in 1977.

If Montreal came back and got a full team I don't know if they'd be a reliable 25k per game attendance team, which would be in the top half of the league. There's enough questions around that IMO that if I was Manfred I'd tell Montreal to prove that they could out-perform cities like Nashville, Charlotte or Portland. What's the point of adding another team that has similar attendance as Pittsburgh or Oakland?

I was also referring to the Royals which started playing in 1890 and was later the Dodger affiliate. They stopped playing in 1960 after the Dodgers moved to LA.

https://baseballhall.org/discover/montreals-baseball-story-dates-back-to-canadas-earliest-days

Quote
Bavasi, now part of the other triumphant bid from San Diego, said “he wasn’t surprised at the selection of Montreal,” noting that the club “drew more than 650,000” in attendance one year during his tenure there between 1948 and 1950.

That would be more than Nashville and Charlotte drew in 2018

I am not positive Montreal is the best place to put a team, by any stretch. But they have been as good a baseball town as most, never had the benefit of a new stadium, never benefited from revenue sharing and had a league and multiple owners who wanted to destroy them. And they still fielded competitive teams.

I don't know, I am not positive that putting a team a few hours from Atlanta, which isn't the best at supporting baseball is the best thing to do either. 

Online mitlen

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Re: Expos Throwback Day
« Reply #65: June 27, 2019, 06:23:45 PM »
I was also referring to the Royals which started playing in 1890 and was later the Dodger affiliate. They stopped playing in 1960 after the Dodgers moved to LA.

Clemente'      :)

Offline spidernat

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Re: Expos Throwback Day
« Reply #66: June 27, 2019, 07:09:10 PM »
As a Nats fan I feel celebrating the accomplishments of the Expos and historic Expos players is disrespectful to Montreal. Those memories didn't happen here in DC, they happened somewhere else with entirely different people around - hell, it was in a different country - and for me to be like, "Tim Raines is part of our history!" seems messed up.

I'm sure Montreal will get a team again sooner rather than later, so it feels even more wrong to trot out Vladimir Guerrero as a legend of this team. Vlad came up with the Expos, not the Nationals. Expos fans and Montreal natives have entirely different baseball memories that are in no way associated with my Nationals memories. I'm always amazed at Expos fans who kept following the team when they moved to DC. I guess those people are cool to do whatever. :lmao:



:clap:

Offline LoveAngelos

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Re: Expos Throwback Day
« Reply #67: June 27, 2019, 10:18:24 PM »
Is the PA going to speak French? and how do you saY IN French

"Now batting Anthony Rendon?"
Or
"Beerman!"

Offline carlosdelvaca

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Re: Expos Throwback Day
« Reply #68: June 28, 2019, 07:54:51 AM »
I don't get why Montreal should get a team again.

A friend in Montreal once told me it wasn't that people didn't like the team; they didn't like the stadium. There aren't that many nice summer days in Montreal, and when they got one they weren't keen on spending it inside a dome. He firmly believed that if they built a Camden Yards-type stadium in downtown that people would have come. (But of course neither the league nor any owner would foot that bill, and the city/voters/taxpayers wouldn't put up the money.)

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: Expos Throwback Day
« Reply #69: June 28, 2019, 09:17:28 AM »
I believe in 8 years the Rays will move to Montreal. I'd like to see it.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Expos Throwback Day
« Reply #70: June 28, 2019, 10:05:42 AM »
I don't know, I am not positive that putting a team a few hours from Atlanta, which isn't the best at supporting baseball is the best thing to do either. 

There's a huge gulf of "no MLB teams" in the Mid-South. I think Charlotte is a weak option but Nashville has no allegiances to any one MLB team (as much as the Braves think they own the town). There's just an entire section of the country devoid of any MLB team and Charlotte/Nashville are big cities with no MLB allegiances. Hell, the Nashville Sounds average 8-9k a game for meaningless Triple-A baseball. Add in built-in rivalries with St. Louis & Atlanta, not to mention close-enough teams like the Reds, Cubs, etc. and there's a nice mix. It's just as much as a gamble as Montreal for sure, but I think it's a better option.


Offline LoveAngelos

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Re: Expos Throwback Day
« Reply #71: June 28, 2019, 10:16:04 AM »
Angelo's still claims North Carolina as his turf.
So if they get a team it will come with MASNYALL

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Expos Throwback Day
« Reply #72: June 28, 2019, 11:05:50 AM »
No one cares about MLB baseball in the south. Need to find the city with the most northern transplants. And hipster doofuses. Nashville it is.

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: Expos Throwback Day
« Reply #73: June 28, 2019, 12:05:53 PM »
Is the PA going to speak French? and how do you saY IN French

"Now batting Anthony Rendon?"
Or
"Beerman!"

It's been my experience at 10 dollars for a can of beer all you have to do is Stick an arm in the air and the beerman is by your side looking for his 10 bucks plus 3 dollar tip.

Offline Senatorswin

  • Posts: 314
Re: Expos Throwback Day
« Reply #74: June 28, 2019, 12:08:18 PM »
Angelo's still claims North Carolina as his turf.
So if they get a team it will come with MASNYALL

With the O's attendance Angelos may want to keep North Carolina territory for himself. He can take MASN with him.