Author Topic: 2019: Go All In  (Read 1088 times)

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Online Slateman

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2019: Go All In
« Topic Start: April 15, 2019, 10:20:50 AM »
For years, Mike Rizzo has walked that delicate line between maintaining a future and improving the squad right now.

That time is at an end. The core of the team that Rizzo built/bought is coming to the decline of their careers. This season could easily be the last season that this team has to compete.

The pen is a mess. We can all acknowledge that. It starts with Rosenthal's inability to throw strikes. The rest of the pen (outside of Doolittle) seems to be a complete crapshoot. Simply put, this bullpen hurts the team's competitiveness.

Which is an enormous problem, as this looks like the last season this team will have the ability to compete. Scherzer is going to slow down here soon. Strasburg is already cratering, suddenly sitting at 91-92. Sanchez and Hellickson are just rentals. But there really aren't any pitching prospects to take their places.

Rendon seems as good as gone. You get this season and then you are trying to replace him. Whether Keiboom is the guy or not, the team still lacks a long term catching option, a first baseman, an option at second base, and could stand to get another corner OFer.

With that in mind, Rizzo should go all in. Payroll issues have gotten him here. If the Nats fail to make the playoffs again this season, Davey is gone, and honestly, I don't think Rizzo will be here either. It's time to make a statement push the chips to the center.

Trade the top prospects for the pitching you need. Keiboom for Madison Bumgarner and Will Smith is what is needed. When the Angels are 8 games out, that's when you make a move and get Buttrey

Whatever it is, it's time to do it. The fact that the Nationals are still in this says a lot about the team and the talent. This is the year, stop sitting on the fence. It's time to go all in. They fail, they fail, but at least we can say the team actually tried.

Offline DCFan

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Re: 2019: Go All In
« Reply #1: April 15, 2019, 11:50:22 AM »
Rendon seems as good as gone. You get this season and then you are trying to replace him. Whether Keiboom is the guy or not,

I’m glad you’ve finally come around and have accepted reality. Boras will shop him around and he should get more GM’s returning his calls. Rendon doesn’t come with Bryce’s contract expectations and other baggage. To a big market team in need of a 3rd baseman he will be a hot commodity.

Online varoadking

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Re: 2019: Go All In
« Reply #2: April 15, 2019, 12:23:43 PM »

You're dreamin'...

Mark Lerner wants the Nationals to be "competitive.'  He has set a low bar and Rizzo is still doing his best to clear it.

Good luck with goin' all in...it ain't happening as long as the Lerner's own this team...we're just gonna hope we get lucky someday...




Online UMDNats

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Re: 2019: Go All In
« Reply #3: April 15, 2019, 12:29:01 PM »
You're dreamin'...

Mark Lerner wants the Nationals to be "competitive.'  He has set a low bar and Rizzo is still doing his best to clear it.

Good luck with goin' all in...it ain't happening as long as the Lerner's own this team...we're just gonna hope we get lucky someday...





Goal is to be good enough to trick fans into buying tickets thinking the team will be competitive without actually trying to field the best possible team or committing big paydays to homegrown players.

It's so weird to me that Mark Lerner was like, "hell yeah let's go sign Max Scherzer for a huge deal, oh and throw $21 million at Matt Wieters, etc." but is cool with letting our stud 3B walk. Is the plan for Luis Garcia to take over for Trea Turner in 3 years? :?

Online varoadking

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Re: 2019: Go All In
« Reply #4: April 15, 2019, 12:32:50 PM »
Goal is to be good enough to trick fans into buying tickets thinking the team will be competitive without actually trying to field the best possible team or committing big paydays to homegrown players.

All this...

Online mitlen

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Re: 2019: Go All In
« Reply #5: April 15, 2019, 12:36:08 PM »
All this...

The Monumental Sports business model.

Online UMDNats

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Re: 2019: Go All In
« Reply #6: April 15, 2019, 12:37:55 PM »
The Monumental Sports business model.

The Caps have spent at the cap for about 10 years straight and have will have had Ovechkin, Backstrom, Carlson and Holtby probably start and end their careers in the same uniform. Not seeing how they're the same.

Unless you mean the Wizards, then yeah pretty much, only Ernie couldn't even do that right :lmao:

Online mitlen

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Re: 2019: Go All In
« Reply #7: April 15, 2019, 12:41:01 PM »
The Caps have spent at the cap for about 10 years straight and have will have had Ovechkin, Backstrom, Carlson and Holtby probably start and end their careers in the same uniform. Not seeing how they're the same.

Unless you mean the Wizards, then yeah pretty much, only Ernie couldn't even do that right :lmao:

The Caps are a recent "success" story.    Hell everybody makes the NHL playoffs.    I was referring more to the point of keep the fans puttin' their butts in the seat  ....  keep 'em competitive.    They'll forget we lost in the first round before next season.    The Wiz?     That's where the engineer Grunfeld drove the Monumental Sports train off the tracks.   :)

Online Slateman

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Re: 2019: Go All In
« Reply #8: April 15, 2019, 12:41:55 PM »
I’m glad you’ve finally come around and have accepted reality. Boras will shop him around and he should get more GM’s returning his calls. Rendon doesn’t come with Bryce’s contract expectations and other baggage. To a big market team in need of a 3rd baseman he will be a hot commodity.
I'm the only one who has been living in that reality. Everyone was mocking me for saying he was a 25 million a year guy.

Online Slateman

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Re: 2019: Go All In
« Reply #9: April 15, 2019, 12:42:31 PM »
You're dreamin'...

Mark Lerner wants the Nationals to be "competitive.'  He has set a low bar and Rizzo is still doing his best to clear it.

Good luck with goin' all in...it ain't happening as long as the Lerner's own this team...we're just gonna hope we get lucky someday...





We are currently not competitive.

Online varoadking

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Re: 2019: Go All In
« Reply #10: April 15, 2019, 12:47:57 PM »
We are currently not competitive.

Agreed...see my second point...

It is the illusion of being competitive that is important...

Online UMDNats

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Re: 2019: Go All In
« Reply #11: April 15, 2019, 12:53:17 PM »
We are currently not competitive.

yes, but don't tell that to nats fans that are still drinking the kool-aid that we're a serious contender because...we have three good SPs and a closer and some good bats!

Online Slateman

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Re: 2019: Go All In
« Reply #12: April 15, 2019, 01:02:11 PM »
yes, but don't tell that to nats fans that are still drinking the kool-aid that we're a serious contender because...we have three good SPs and a closer and some good bats!
We have five. And honestly, that's what most teams have to get to the playoffs.

Team needs two good relievers.

Offline Count Walewski

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Re: 2019: Go All In
« Reply #13: April 15, 2019, 01:16:42 PM »
Which "top prospects" are you trading?

The pessimist's view of the Nationals organization is that once Scherzer and Strasburg age out and Rendon and Turner depart via free agency, you have...Soto and Robles. Your mind starts to go to dark places that involve trading Soto and Robles in a few years and rebuilding for 5+ years out.

Online Slateman

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Re: 2019: Go All In
« Reply #14: April 15, 2019, 01:23:33 PM »
Which "top prospects" are you trading?

The pessimist's view of the Nationals organization is that once Scherzer and Strasburg age out and Rendon and Turner depart via free agency, you have...Soto and Robles. Your mind starts to go to dark places that involve trading Soto and Robles in a few years and rebuilding for 5+ years out.
Whatever it takes. That's what going "all in" means.

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: 2019: Go All In
« Reply #15: April 15, 2019, 01:50:24 PM »
This is ridiculous. You have Scherzer locked up for two years after this.  Stras and Corbin for years. Catcher is set for at least through next year. You can't rag on them with Rendon until he's gone. One of the best shortstops in the league. Top prospect can play second. Two young studs in the outfield that will be here for the next five years. They'll have as good a chance to compete for the world series as anybody for the next few years.

Online mitlen

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Re: 2019: Go All In
« Reply #16: April 15, 2019, 01:51:43 PM »
This thread is beginning to take on the "Blow It Up" look.

Online UMDNats

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Re: 2019: Go All In
« Reply #17: April 15, 2019, 01:58:27 PM »
This is ridiculous. You have Scherzer locked up for two years after this.  Stras and Corbin for years. Catcher is set for at least through next year. You can't rag on them with Rendon until he's gone. One of the best shortstops in the league. Top prospect can play second. Two young studs in the outfield that will be here for the next five years. They'll have as good a chance to compete for the world series as anybody for the next few years.

yeah we have some good pieces but unfortunately our bullpen is so tremendously terrible that it will make us a non-competitive team. We just had an 8IP, 3 ER start from our ace and we lost because our second-best bullpen arm (apparently) couldn't get three outs.

if we want to go all-in, every prospect needs the be on the table for bullpen help. first base is a black hole right now too but can't do anything about that. i'd probably hang on to kieboom unless you can find a package for 2 good relievers who aren't rentals but the bullpen as it stands right now will take us from a playoff team to another boring 82 win season. world series is a pipedream when we can't hold a lead in april.

and for the next few years, if we try to improve the roster this year (aka, actually try to win a world series), those controllable pieces - see ya. kieboom, garcia, etc. would have to be dealt because our farm system is uh, not great. Soto, Robles are great and if you add them with Turner you have 3 of 8 lineup spots that are "good" hitters. Eaton, we don't know exactly what he will be going forward and catcher is likely a league-average bat, so that's fine but not great. Don't want a 100 OPS+ hitting 4th.

Offline spidernat

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Re: 2019: Go All In
« Reply #18: April 15, 2019, 01:59:57 PM »
typical Slate to bump the "blow it up" thread (which he started a couple of weeks ago) and a day later start this thread :crackup:

Online mitlen

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Re: 2019: Go All In
« Reply #19: April 15, 2019, 02:01:06 PM »
typical Slate to bump the "blow it up" thread (which he started a couple of weeks ago) and a day later start this thread :crackup:

Say what?    Slate?    No way.    :)   It's better than an off day.

Online Slateman

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Re: 2019: Go All In
« Reply #20: April 15, 2019, 02:12:15 PM »
This is ridiculous. You have Scherzer locked up for two years after this.  Stras and Corbin for years. Catcher is set for at least through next year. You can't rag on them with Rendon until he's gone. One of the best shortstops in the league. Top prospect can play second. Two young studs in the outfield that will be here for the next five years. They'll have as good a chance to compete for the world series as anybody for the next few years.
Stras is an albatross. Scherzer ain't going to pitch like this much longer. Gomes is getting expensive for so little hitting. And our "best shortstop" can't get through a season without getting hurt. THe Braves have a ton of young talent on the rise, and the Phillies will only spend more and more money.

It's now or never.

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: 2019: Go All In
« Reply #21: April 15, 2019, 02:19:01 PM »
This thread is beginning to take on the "Blow It Up" look.
Norte Dame Cathedral on Fire.  Coincidence?

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: 2019: Go All In
« Reply #22: April 15, 2019, 03:14:45 PM »
There actually is an organizational strategy. They take advantage of team development and control years to build cheap around position players and, after Werth, only go long on bargains. They spend more on pitching but still mostly play for value. Certainly Stras was below the estimate of his FA value, and even Scherzer was below Greinke Price levels when you consider the deferrals.

With this M.O., there's no way Robles Soto Kieboom get moved. I don't think they entertain offers for Garcia.

Online UMDNats

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Re: 2019: Go All In
« Reply #23: April 15, 2019, 03:20:30 PM »
There actually is an organizational strategy. They take advantage of team development and control years to build cheap around position players and, after Werth, only go long on bargains. They spend more on pitching but still mostly play for value. Certainly Stras was below the estimate of his FA value, and even Scherzer was below Greinke Price levels when you consider the deferrals.

With this M.O., there's no way Robles Soto Kieboom get moved. I don't think they entertain offers for Garcia.

Only way Kieboom gets moved IMO is if Rendon is locked-up midseason and Dozier becomes a productive 2B this year and they think they can go year-to-year with guys like him. Even then, it's cost-effective to pencil in Kieboom at either 2B or 3B next year and use either Rendon or Dozier's money on bullpen help, a replacement for the other guy, etc.

Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

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Re: 2019: Go All In
« Reply #24: April 15, 2019, 03:53:17 PM »
For years, Mike Rizzo has walked that delicate line between maintaining a future and improving the squad right now.

That time is at an end. The core of the team that Rizzo built/bought is coming to the decline of their careers. This season could easily be the last season that this team has to compete.

The pen is a mess. We can all acknowledge that. It starts with Rosenthal's inability to throw strikes. The rest of the pen (outside of Doolittle) seems to be a complete crapshoot. Simply put, this bullpen hurts the team's competitiveness.

Which is an enormous problem, as this looks like the last season this team will have the ability to compete. Scherzer is going to slow down here soon. Strasburg is already cratering, suddenly sitting at 91-92. Sanchez and Hellickson are just rentals. But there really aren't any pitching prospects to take their places.

Rendon seems as good as gone. You get this season and then you are trying to replace him. Whether Keiboom is the guy or not, the team still lacks a long term catching option, a first baseman, an option at second base, and could stand to get another corner OFer.

With that in mind, Rizzo should go all in. Payroll issues have gotten him here. If the Nats fail to make the playoffs again this season, Davey is gone, and honestly, I don't think Rizzo will be here either. It's time to make a statement push the chips to the center.

Trade the top prospects for the pitching you need. Keiboom for Madison Bumgarner and Will Smith is what is needed. When the Angels are 8 games out, that's when you make a move and get Buttrey

Whatever it is, it's time to do it. The fact that the Nationals are still in this says a lot about the team and the talent. This is the year, stop sitting on the fence. It's time to go all in. They fail, they fail, but at least we can say the team actually tried.

Bumgarner isn't much better than Hellickson at this point.  He's gone the way of Felix Hernandez and is just a very hittable junk baller now.