Author Topic: Robles Batting 9th  (Read 464 times)

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Offline mbfields

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Robles Batting 9th
« Topic Start: April 10, 2019, 07:30:14 PM »
I’m sorry, but I fail to see the virtue in the “second lead off hitter theory.”  You want your best hitters batting more frequently.  For every time the second leadoff helps you, the pitcher ending a rally kills you. 

Thoughts?

Online Slateman

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Re: Robles Batting 9th
« Reply #1: April 10, 2019, 07:32:17 PM »
I think we should leave him there for now.  Hes young, he needs the confidence and we need to be patient with him.

Offline mbfields

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Re: Robles Batting 9th
« Reply #2: April 10, 2019, 07:33:30 PM »
I’m not suggesting he bat 2nd, just that we minimize plate appearances for the pitcher, rather than for Robles.

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Robles Batting 9th
« Reply #3: April 10, 2019, 07:35:01 PM »
It's working well, but now that Robles has settled and it's been a couple weeks I might move him up. Even that's a hard call because I like the lineup consistency.

I think it was a really smart way to get Robles rolling and comfortable.

Offline mbfields

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Re: Robles Batting 9th
« Reply #4: April 10, 2019, 07:37:13 PM »
I guess I should have been more clear in my question.  I think batting the pitcher higher than 9th, unless he happens to be a better hitter than one or more of your regulars, is simply a case of over managing the lineup.

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Robles Batting 9th
« Reply #5: April 10, 2019, 07:38:11 PM »
https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/3/17/795946/optimizing-your-lineup-by

Not sure what's been written since The Book on this subject, but here's the logic.

Offline mbfields

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Re: Robles Batting 9th
« Reply #6: April 10, 2019, 07:42:34 PM »
Thanks for that article.  I guess I still disagree though.

“but the benefit of having a better number nine hitter interacting with the top of the lineup is worth the trade-off, by about two runs per season.”

Two runs per season seems hardly statistically significant. 😜

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Robles Batting 9th
« Reply #7: April 10, 2019, 09:20:09 PM »

Two runs per season seems hardly statistically significant. 😜
I think that, with that little a difference on average over thousands of line ups and seasons, my take is it isn't ridiculous and a sign the manager is necessarily an idiot, but that, depending on your personnel, you may want to let your pitcher bat 9th.  With this team, I liked the 9-1-2 stretch of Robles - Eaton - Turner at the start of the year, and I think Dozier has started to come around a bit since he moved to 2.  Would I consider maybe slotting in Robles 6, Gomes 7, then either Difo 8 or Pitcher 8?  That's a possibility.  But, after the past few games, I don't try to tinker with a lineup that putting up a lot of runs.

Offline expos1994

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Re: Robles Batting 9th
« Reply #8: April 11, 2019, 10:03:06 AM »
If it ain't broke...

My favorite moment last night was when Robles drove in Hellickson from first with a triple.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Robles Batting 9th
« Reply #9: April 11, 2019, 10:09:20 AM »
Thanks for that article.  I guess I still disagree though.

“but the benefit of having a better number nine hitter interacting with the top of the lineup is worth the trade-off, by about two runs per season.”

Two runs per season seems hardly statistically significant. 😜

In Robles' case, it's a little more than just the benefit to the team in the short term.  It's also the benefit to Robles' development.  Hitting in front of the pitcher spot is hard.  You get pitched around a ton and thus tempted to start chasing bad pitches, and your approach changes because a walk or single (or even a double) is often useless with two outs.  Those aren't approaches and habits you want young hitters to see much of if they're not going to be hitting in front of pitchers in the longer term.

It's no accident that when they didn't have a promising young hitter who was more of a leadoff type, they didn't bat the pitcher eighth.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Robles Batting 9th
« Reply #10: April 11, 2019, 10:18:49 AM »
Next move I don't think is to #2 or leadoff.  It might be to #6 or #7, in front of or behind Gomes / Studzuki.  I think he'd be allowed to run in either of those spots and would be able to hit with runners on more frequently.  But, how many extra PAs is that v. #9, and would the top of the lineup become less productive without him in front of it?

Offline bluestreak

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Re: Robles Batting 9th
« Reply #11: April 11, 2019, 10:31:42 AM »
The Nats are 2nd in the NL in Runs. Why exactly does the lineup need tinkering with at all right now?

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Robles Batting 9th
« Reply #12: April 11, 2019, 10:54:45 AM »
Next move I don't think is to #2 or leadoff.  It might be to #6 or #7, in front of or behind Gomes / Studzuki.  I think he'd be allowed to run in either of those spots and would be able to hit with runners on more frequently.  But, how many extra PAs is that v. #9, and would the top of the lineup become less productive without him in front of it?

That section of the lineup gets crowded again once Turner is back and the 2B moves back down.  I'd think if they were going to make that move this year, they would have done it when Turner went out and the 2B spot moved up.   

But it all depends on what Robles ends up looking like as an MLB hitter.   If he hits anything like he's done so far, though, you can't bury him in 6 or 7, nor shove him in at the top. So far he's been hitting middle of the order power production - and not just this season. 

Offline Count Walewski

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Re: Robles Batting 9th
« Reply #13: April 11, 2019, 12:15:07 PM »
Dave Martinez is our manager because of what his former boss has accomplished in Tampa and Chicago, so I imagine he will do all sorts of Maddon-type stuff. That is what he was brought here to do.

Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: Robles Batting 9th
« Reply #14: April 11, 2019, 01:19:10 PM »
The Nats are 2nd in the NL in Runs. Why exactly does the lineup need tinkering with at all right now?

Agreed

Robles in 9 hole has given him both lead off opportunities and rbi opportunities

If it ain’t broke

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Robles Batting 9th
« Reply #15: April 11, 2019, 02:47:19 PM »
That section of the lineup gets crowded again once Turner is back and the 2B moves back down.  I'd think if they were going to make that move this year, they would have done it when Turner went out and the 2B spot moved up.   

But it all depends on what Robles ends up looking like as an MLB hitter.   If he hits anything like he's done so far, though, you can't bury him in 6 or 7, nor shove him in at the top. So far he's been hitting middle of the order power production - and not just this season. 
oh, next year he's Zimmerman's or Rendon's replacement.

Offline Mathguy

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Re: Robles Batting 9th
« Reply #16: April 12, 2019, 05:22:04 AM »
I remember Lou Brock batting 1st for Cardinals while leading in the HR dept

That section of the lineup gets crowded again once Turner is back and the 2B moves back down.  I'd think if they were going to make that move this year, they would have done it when Turner went out and the 2B spot moved up.   

But it all depends on what Robles ends up looking like as an MLB hitter.   If he hits anything like he's done so far, though, you can't bury him in 6 or 7, nor shove him in at the top. So far he's been hitting middle of the order power production - and not just this season. 

Offline Duke of Earl

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Re: Robles Batting 9th
« Reply #17: April 12, 2019, 12:32:52 PM »
I remember Lou Brock batting 1st for Cardinals while leading in the HR dept
I think you might have confused Lou Brock with someone else.

Offline bluestreak

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Re: Robles Batting 9th
« Reply #18: April 12, 2019, 01:00:18 PM »
I think you might have confused Lou Brock with someone else.

He had 21 home runs in in 1967 and was second on the team to Orlando Cepeda who had 25

Offline mitlen

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Re: Robles Batting 9th
« Reply #19: April 12, 2019, 01:12:11 PM »
Robles is 8th today.    Movin' on up.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Robles Batting 9th
« Reply #20: April 12, 2019, 03:30:35 PM »
Robles is 8th today.    Movin' on up.

Not according to the Nats' website and twitter...

Offline mitlen

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Re: Robles Batting 9th
« Reply #21: April 12, 2019, 03:49:08 PM »
Not according to the Nats' website and twitter...

It was on rotowire earlier.    It's been changed.      Damnit.    I was gonna copy and paste it.

Offline Bloo

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Re: Robles Batting 9th
« Reply #22: April 12, 2019, 04:54:46 PM »
I like having the pitcher hit 8th because Scherzer and Strasburg are good hitters.

Offline varoadking

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Re: Robles Batting 9th
« Reply #23: April 12, 2019, 06:38:32 PM »
I like having the pitcher hit 8th because Scherzer and Strasburg are good hitters.

So is Helly...

Offline mitlen

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Re: Robles Batting 9th
« Reply #24: April 14, 2019, 09:27:12 AM »
I cut and pasted this sucker today from rotowire.    :P

RF Adam Eaton L
2B Brian Dozier R
3B A. Rendon R
LF Juan Soto L
1B R. Zimmerman R
C Yan Gomes R
SS Wilmer Difo S
CF V. Robles R
P Max Scherzer