2019 Bullpen

[Elvir Ovcina]

Yeah, why not keep Fedde up to do just what you suggest? Not like Suero and Miller have been effective. Is it an options thing?

It's not an options thing as to Fedde or Suero.  Fedde is in his last option year, but he can go up and down as many times this season as needed.  Suero's got at least two option years left.  Miller's out of options.

[Slateman]

Welp, on the positive side,  13 scoreless

[NatsAllThe Way]

Now bullpen looks great... starting pitching, hitting and defense falls apart.

[Slateman]

Now bullpen looks great... starting pitching, hitting and defense falls apart.

Nattitude

[Slateman]

Welp, on the positive side,  13 scoreless

17

[Expos]

Brandon Kintzler. Another guy we let go who goes on to have immediate success after he leaves here. Add him to the list of stud relievers we let go.

Blake Treinen 15 IP, 1.533 WHIP, 3.00 ERA, 6 saves
Felipe Vasquez 12.2 IP, 1.263 WHIP, .71 ERA 7 saves
Mark Melancon 11.2 IP, 1.14 WHIP, 1.54 ERA
Greg Holland 10 IP, 0.6 WHIP, 0.0 ERA, 6 saves
Brandon Kintzler 13.1 IP, .659 WHIP, 2.63 ERA
Yusmerio Petit 16 IP, 0.735 WHIP, 2.76 ERA
Craig Stammen 17 IP, 0.981 WHIP, 3.12 ERA
Shawn Kelly 12 IP, 0.750 WHIP, 1.50 ERA,
Kelvin Hererra 14 IP, 0.977 WHIP, 2.51 ERA
Trevor Gott 16 IP, 0.625 WHIP, 1.69 ERA

Nice to see Gott turn into a dominant reliever. I can't watch this team anymore.

7 guys with a sub 1.0 WHIP. 19 combined saves.

10 wins, 4 losses combined by the guys we let go. Brilliant Rizzo.

[UMDNats]

Brandon Kintzler. Another guy we let go who goes on to have immediate success after he leaves here. Add him to the list of stud relievers we let go.

Blake Treinen 15 IP, 1.533 WHIP, 3.00 ERA, 6 saves
Felipe Vasquez 12.2 IP, 1.263 WHIP, .71 ERA 7 saves
Mark Melancon 11.2 IP, 1.14 WHIP, 1.54 ERA
Greg Holland 10 IP, 0.6 WHIP, 0.0 ERA, 6 saves
Brandon Kintzler 13.1 IP, .659 WHIP, 2.63 ERA
Yusmerio Petit 16 IP, 0.735 WHIP, 2.76 ERA
Craig Stammen 17 IP, 0.981 WHIP, 3.12 ERA
Shawn Kelly 12 IP, 0.750 WHIP, 1.50 ERA,
Kelvin Hererra 14 IP, 0.977 WHIP, 2.51 ERA
Trevor Gott 16 IP, 0.625 WHIP, 1.69 ERA

Nice to see Gott turn into a dominant reliever. I can't watch this team anymore.

7 guys with a sub 1.0 WHIP. 19 combined saves.

10 wins, 4 losses combined by the guys we let go. Brilliant Rizzo.

wonder how many of those guys we could have for Trevor Rosenthal's $8 million

[DPMOmaha]

Kintzler was terrible with the Cubs last year, too.

[Natsinpwc]

With all the great relievers out there one would think the overall stats would be better than these. Only ten teams with an ERA under 4. At least the Nats are ahead of the Blos.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/pitching/split/128

[Baseball is Life]

Brandon Kintzler. Another guy we let go who goes on to have immediate success after he leaves here. Add him to the list of stud relievers we let go.

Blake Treinen 15 IP, 1.533 WHIP, 3.00 ERA, 6 saves
Felipe Vasquez 12.2 IP, 1.263 WHIP, .71 ERA 7 saves
Mark Melancon 11.2 IP, 1.14 WHIP, 1.54 ERA
Greg Holland 10 IP, 0.6 WHIP, 0.0 ERA, 6 saves
Brandon Kintzler 13.1 IP, .659 WHIP, 2.63 ERA
Yusmerio Petit 16 IP, 0.735 WHIP, 2.76 ERA
Craig Stammen 17 IP, 0.981 WHIP, 3.12 ERA
Shawn Kelly 12 IP, 0.750 WHIP, 1.50 ERA,
Kelvin Hererra 14 IP, 0.977 WHIP, 2.51 ERA
Trevor Gott 16 IP, 0.625 WHIP, 1.69 ERA

Nice to see Gott turn into a dominant reliever. I can't watch this team anymore.

7 guys with a sub 1.0 WHIP. 19 combined saves.

10 wins, 4 losses combined by the guys we let go. Brilliant Rizzo.

My goodness, what a testament to the terrible coaching and evaluation the Nats have when it comes to relief pitching. No wonder the Nats pen has sucked for years.

And a good job, Expos, for putting the data together.

[Section214]

Brandon Kintzler. Another guy we let go who goes on to have immediate success after he leaves here. Add him to the list of stud relievers we let go.

Blake Treinen 15 IP, 1.533 WHIP, 3.00 ERA, 6 saves
Felipe Vasquez 12.2 IP, 1.263 WHIP, .71 ERA 7 saves
Mark Melancon 11.2 IP, 1.14 WHIP, 1.54 ERA
Greg Holland 10 IP, 0.6 WHIP, 0.0 ERA, 6 saves
Brandon Kintzler 13.1 IP, .659 WHIP, 2.63 ERA
Yusmerio Petit 16 IP, 0.735 WHIP, 2.76 ERA
Craig Stammen 17 IP, 0.981 WHIP, 3.12 ERA
Shawn Kelly 12 IP, 0.750 WHIP, 1.50 ERA,
Kelvin Hererra 14 IP, 0.977 WHIP, 2.51 ERA
Trevor Gott 16 IP, 0.625 WHIP, 1.69 ERA

Nice to see Gott turn into a dominant reliever. I can't watch this team anymore.

7 guys with a sub 1.0 WHIP. 19 combined saves.

10 wins, 4 losses combined by the guys we let go. Brilliant Rizzo.

Thanks for putting that together. Gott, Holland, Kelly and Herrera are the ones that are hard to stomach. Those guys are exactly what we need out of the pen this year.

I think to complain about Treinen's success is revisionist and unfair. He had his chances here and needed a change of scenery. Not to mention that we got Doolittle in the trade..

Seeing how dominant Vasquez has become is painful.

[Elvir Ovcina]

My goodness, what a testament to the terrible coaching and evaluation the Nats have when it comes to relief pitching. No wonder the Nats pen has sucked for years.

And a good job, Expos, for putting the data together.

As has been noted above, a couple of these are artificial:

Vasquez was traded to get Melancon, who then left as a free agent.  There's nobody who would want Melancon's production thus far in year 3 of a 4 year contract given what the Giants paid him (15.5 million/year!).  Given the contract, the Giants would still trade him for virtually nothing if they could.  I mean this literally: if Rizzo called Zaidi today and offered him even a token return while taking all of Melancon's salary, the Giants would do it in a heartbeat.  The guy has been too injured and is too expensive for a middle reliever on a bad team.  He's only there now because the contract has been untradeable. 

Treinen was traded for Doolittle, and he's now paid twice as much as Doolittle. 

Neither Kintzler nor Kelley departed because of performance issues. 

Holland was only here in the first place because he was essentially free (not that bringing him back would not have been preferable to Rosenthal).  Herrera was acquired for very little and was neither good nor healthy last season, but was expensive.  Now he is both expensive and effective. 

What I'm getting at here is that there were multiple options to retain effective guys, and the team has failed at that.  But due to literal trades of some for others (or the best reliever we have now) or sheer cost, it wouldn't be possible to keep all or even most of these guys.  Hindsight is 20/20, but only a handful of these caused me discomfort at the time they were shipped out or allowed to leave - Stammen and Holland mostly, and both of them involved some guesswork as to how guys perform down the line from Tommy John surgeries. 

[hotshot]

Didn't Holland just go on the IL? He has a 5.34 ERA and has given up 7 bombs already! Also, 16 walks in 32 innings. We wouldn't need any part of that!

[Elvir Ovcina]

Didn't Holland just go on the IL? He has a 5.34 ERA and has given up 7 bombs already! Also, 16 walks in 32 innings. We wouldn't need any part of that!

I don't know who you're thinking of, but Holland still has a zero ERA for the year and pitched last night.  He finished the game and doesn't seem to be hurt...

[Slateman]

Thanks for putting that together. Gott, Holland, Kelly and Herrera are the ones that are hard to stomach. Those guys are exactly what we need out of the pen this year.

I think to complain about Treinen's success is revisionist and unfair. He had his chances here and needed a change of scenery. Not to mention that we got Doolittle in the trade..

Seeing how dominant Vasquez has become is painful.

Gott maybe. Kelley was a problem in the clubhouse and Herrera didnt want to re-sign here.  Because he wanted to close

[Slateman]

Didn't Holland just go on the IL? He has a 5.34 ERA and has given up 7 bombs already! Also, 16 walks in 32 innings. We wouldn't need any part of that!

I think you're looking at Derek Holland

[NatsAllThe Way]

We have the best bullpen in baseball for the last 17 innings, I don't know what you guys are all complaining about.

[Expos]

Thanks for putting that together. Gott, Holland, Kelly and Herrera are the ones that are hard to stomach. Those guys are exactly what we need out of the pen this year.

I think to complain about Treinen's success is revisionist and unfair. He had his chances here and needed a change of scenery. Not to mention that we got Doolittle in the trade..

Seeing how dominant Vasquez has become is painful.

We also gave up lefty Jesus Lezardo in the Doolittle trade as well who was downright filthy in AAA and AA ball last year.

23 starts, 2.88 ERA, 10W, 5L, 109.1 innings, 129 strikeouts, 1.088WHIP.

It's not looking good for that trade.

[Expos]

My goodness, what a testament to the terrible coaching and evaluation the Nats have when it comes to relief pitching. No wonder the Nats pen has sucked for years.

And a good job, Expos, for putting the data together.

I dont know what it is and why good relievers that come here all of a sudden stink. Then we get rid of them and they continue to have success elsewhere.

Pressure, coaching, development..who knows. But something obviously isn't working.

[Expos]

Kintzler was terrible with the Cubs last year, too.

Yep. But they showed patience, stuck with him and are now seeing results.

[Natsinpwc]

Yep. But they showed patience, stuck with him and are now seeing results.

More like they traded for him and were stuck with him for this year. Not even a quarter of the season over. He won’t keep it up.

How come no one talks about this guy. Terrible the year before he got to DC. Great year and then trash since then.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/alberma01.shtml

[Expos]

More like they traded for him and were stuck with him for this year. Not even a quarter of the season over. He won’t keep it up.

How come no one talks about this guy. Terrible the year before he got to DC. Great year and then trash since then.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/alberma01.shtml

Still a better WHIP and ERA than most of our guys with a 4.38 ERA and a 1.054 WHIP. I'd take him over every single guy we have right now not named Doolittle.

So the 10 guys I listed have been lights out. Alberts has been good, not great and Oliver Perez hasn't been good.

So 2 guys out of 12 we let go in the last few years aren't pitching at an All Star level.

[Natsinpwc]

Still a better WHIP and ERA than most of our guys with a 4.38 ERA and a 1.054 WHIP. I'd take him over every single guy we have right now not named Doolittle.

So the 10 guys I listed have been lights out. Alberts has been good, not great and Oliver Perez hasn't been good.

So 2 guys out of 12 we let go in the last few years aren't pitching at an All Star level.

Did you look at Albers stats last year?

[UMDNats]

Every team has a list of bullpen guys who performed better somewhere else. Our list really isn't that damning considering the best/consistent guys on that list either really needed to change their scenery (Treinen) or were dealt in a "win now" situation (Rivero) before they were all that great.

Herrera was a bust last year but that happens. Our problem is we can never find/develop our own guys to be good for a token 3-4 years since Storen left. Every year it's rearranging the 'pen almost completely and relying on reclamation projects to fill important spots.

[Elvir Ovcina]

We also gave up lefty Jesus Lezardo in the Doolittle trade as well who was downright filthy in AAA and AA ball last year.

23 starts, 2.88 ERA, 10W, 5L, 109.1 innings, 129 strikeouts, 1.088WHIP.

It's not looking good for that trade.

Luzardo is a Tommy John survivor who hasn't thrown all season because of a shoulder injury (and won't for quite some time).  Rumblings around the Bay Area are that he might not pitch at all this season.   There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.  And of course the Nats had to give up something of value: Treinen wasn't exactly on the same level as Doolittle when the trade happened.