Author Topic: 2019 Bullpen  (Read 11758 times)

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Offline imref

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Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #175: April 09, 2019, 10:25:17 AM »
A team will always chance a guy throwing 100

And MAT is an above average Defender with above average speed and power. He's also young.

They will find jobs if they hit the market.

I'm not saying we will get anything in return other than salary relief. But that's what we really need anyway

MAT dWAR:
2018: -0.1
2017: 1.6
2016: -0.2
2015: 0.6

He's at best a league average defensive player and a below league average offensive player (only one year of positive oWAR in his five year career).  I'm not getting the view that other teams would want Taylor for anything above league minimum.  He's basically an outfield Danny Espinosa, and maybe slightly worse on defense.

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #176: April 09, 2019, 10:26:21 AM »
MAT dWAR:
2018: -0.1
2017: 1.6
2016: -0.2
2015: 0.6

He's at best a league average defensive player and a below league average offensive player (only one year of positive oWAR in his five year career).  I'm not getting the view that other teams would want Taylor for anything above league minimum.
Good evidence that defensive WAR is flawed. At best.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #177: April 09, 2019, 10:30:34 AM »
Apparently we're interested in Bud Norris.

Offline Duke of Earl

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Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #178: April 09, 2019, 10:39:36 AM »

He's at best a league average defensive player

Are we talking about the same Michael A. Taylor?  You know, these defensive stats indicated that Denard Span wasn't very good, and he was a fabulous centerfielder. And I think Taylor is even better than Span.

Offline imref

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Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #179: April 09, 2019, 10:50:52 AM »
so Rosenthal didn't work out, and now we go for his replacement?
Apparently we're interested in Bud Norris.

Offline Duke of Earl

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Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #180: April 09, 2019, 10:54:31 AM »
Bud Norris isn't very good.  He's managed to stick around ten years.  He's posted ERAs over 4 in seven of those years. Lifetime WHIP pushing 1.4.   Not what you want in a reliever.

Offline LoveAngelos

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Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #181: April 09, 2019, 11:08:47 AM »
Last year Miller came on like gangbusters and then started to open the scoring floodgates

Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #182: April 09, 2019, 11:14:07 AM »
We need less years of Zimmerman.

And years after years Rizzo's cheap bullpen and veteran PTO's have not worked. In fact it probably lost us the chance of a World Series.

We are gonna pay him $20 anyway before next opening day. 2/$10 is a good deal for both club and player

Online hotshot

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Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #183: April 09, 2019, 12:38:26 PM »
Bud Norris isn't very good.  He's managed to stick around ten years.  He's posted ERAs over 4 in seven of those years. Lifetime WHIP pushing 1.4.   Not what you want in a reliever.

You could say that about everyone in our current BP except Doolittle.

Offline imref

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Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #184: April 09, 2019, 01:26:30 PM »
Bud Norris isn't very good.  He's managed to stick around ten years.  He's posted ERAs over 4 in seven of those years. Lifetime WHIP pushing 1.4.   Not what you want in a reliever.

he was ok last year for STL, 3.59 ERA and 20+ saves.  That's better than Rosenthal, but not sure who else I'd replace with him unless they see Ross as a temporary fix and want him back to Fresno to keep starting.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #185: April 09, 2019, 01:46:32 PM »
he was ok last year for STL, 3.59 ERA and 20+ saves.  That's better than Rosenthal, but not sure who else I'd replace with him unless they see Ross as a temporary fix and want him back to Fresno to keep starting.

Miller.  He's almost 32, and his career arc suggests that the pitcher from this season and the second half of last season is the real Miller, not the guy who started last season with 8 games of 0.00.   After that, the rest of the season was pretty much in line with his career averages aside from him giving up a ton of homers (which he's continued this season).   Not sure Norris is much better, or even much different, but that's your obvious swap aside from Rosenthal and Ross.

MAT dWAR:
2018: -0.1
2017: 1.6
2016: -0.2
2015: 0.6

He's at best a league average defensive player and a below league average offensive player (only one year of positive oWAR in his five year career).  I'm not getting the view that other teams would want Taylor for anything above league minimum.  He's basically an outfield Danny Espinosa, and maybe slightly worse on defense.

Metrics for outfielders have a long way to go.  These are the same metrics that suggest Eaton was, for one season only, a spectacularly good outfielder.  Everything before or since matches his eye test, which is that he's mediocre and was even before he got hurt. 

Offline Duke of Earl

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Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #186: April 09, 2019, 01:59:13 PM »
he was ok last year for STL, 3.59 ERA and 20+ saves.
Sure, if you could guarantee we'd get last year's Norris I'd sign him up right now.  But his history says last year was a fluke.

Online Slateman

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Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #187: April 09, 2019, 02:00:14 PM »
MAT dWAR:
2018: -0.1
2017: 1.6
2016: -0.2
2015: 0.6

He's at best a league average defensive player and a below league average offensive player (only one year of positive oWAR in his five year career).  I'm not getting the view that other teams would want Taylor for anything above league minimum.  He's basically an outfield Danny Espinosa, and maybe slightly worse on defense.

2018 - 10 DRS (4th in MLB)
2017 - 8 (7th)

Taylor is many things. Funny, energetic, reasonable, civil. But "average league defensive player" is not one of them. He's very, very good and would probably rate amongst the league's best with a full season.

Offline bluestreak

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Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #188: April 09, 2019, 02:09:44 PM »
If you think MAT is a league average defensive player, you have watched no baseball.

Online varoadking

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Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #189: April 09, 2019, 02:29:17 PM »
If you think MAT is a league average defensive player, you have watched no baseball.

He's not always wrong...it just seems like it.

Wait...no, he's always wrong...  :P

Offline UMDNats

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Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #190: April 09, 2019, 02:38:14 PM »
Yeah, I don't buy those defensive numbers with regards to Taylor. He is at worst an above-average defensive OF.

Offline Duke of Earl

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Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #191: April 09, 2019, 02:49:26 PM »
Yeah, I don't buy those defensive numbers with regards to Taylor. He is at worst an above-average defensive OF.

I would say, at worst a great defensive outfielder.  At best, spectacular.

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #192: April 09, 2019, 02:54:55 PM »
If you think MAT is a league average defensive player, you have watched no baseball.
That is why the numbers on Harper’s WAR last year were misleading. Not a great defensive player but not as bad as they made him out. For every day players just look at their offensive WAR. The eye test is just as good as any stats for defense.

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #193: April 09, 2019, 02:56:19 PM »
So what options do the Nats have for sending Rosenthal to the minors? Or do they have any?  That’s really what he needs as does the team.

Offline Squab

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Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #194: April 09, 2019, 03:01:50 PM »
So what options do the Nats have for sending Rosenthal to the minors? Or do they have any?  That’s really what he needs as does the team.

making up an injury and then a rehab assignment or a DFA where he then accepts assignment

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #195: April 09, 2019, 03:06:14 PM »
making up an injury and then a rehab assignment or a DFA where he then accepts assignment


Online varoadking

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Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #196: April 09, 2019, 03:17:12 PM »
That is why the numbers on Harper’s WAR last year were misleading. Not a great defensive player but not as bad as they made him out. For every day players just look at their offensive WAR. The eye test is just as good as any stats for defense.

...and here I thought we were supposed to put all of our faith in these newfangled, made-up statistics?   :shrug:


Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

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Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #197: April 09, 2019, 03:39:31 PM »
Bud is coming.  Not a stud, but he was a respectable closer to the Cardinals last year replacing Rosenthal.  If he's the same guy, that's still very useful to us. 

Offline Expos

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Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #198: April 09, 2019, 03:45:32 PM »
Bud is coming.  Not a stud, but he was a respectable closer to the Cardinals last year replacing Rosenthal.  If he's the same guy, that's still very useful to us.

Decent last year but more bottom of the barrel scrap heaping by Rizzo.

Next up: Replacements for Miller, Grace, Sipp and Suero. They can all GTFO.

Same garbage every year with Rizzo. Go scrap heaping for the bullpen In the offseason and when they all suck go scrap heaping again. By then it's too late and the pen has lost us too many games.

Offline skippy1999

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Re: 2019 Bullpen
« Reply #199: April 09, 2019, 03:49:49 PM »
Decent last year but more bottom of the barrel scrap heaping by Rizzo.

Next up: Replacements for Miller, Grace, Sipp and Suero. They can all GTFO.

Same garbage every year with Rizzo. Go scrap heaping for the bullpen In the offseason and when they all suck go scrap heaping again. By then it's too late and the pen has lost us too many games.

Suero is garbage? :roll: