Author Topic: Extend Zimmerman?  (Read 560 times)

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Offline varoadking

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #25: March 04, 2019, 09:57:27 PM »
Why would he agree to this?

So he can finish his career as National instead of a Tampa Bay Ray...

Offline bluestreak

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #26: March 04, 2019, 10:02:40 PM »
So he can finish his career as National instead of a Tampa Bay Ray...

What would you do if your employer told you you could make less than what they had agreed to pay you next year over the next 3? No matter how much you liked working there?

I’m not sure the union would even allow this.

Offline varoadking

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #27: March 04, 2019, 10:12:13 PM »
What would you do if your employer told you you could make less than what they had agreed to pay you next year over the next 3? No matter how much you liked working there?

I’m not sure the union would even allow this.

Me?  I'd look into moving to Tampa Bay...  ;)

Offline Slateman

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #28: March 04, 2019, 11:57:32 PM »
Why would he agree to this?

Because we're fans and he, like ownership, should just do whatever we ask and sign whatever contracts we think up.

Offline bluestreak

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #29: March 05, 2019, 12:04:17 AM »
Me?  I'd look into moving to Tampa Bay...  ;)

But the Nats basically owe him $20 million for just one more year. Why on earth would he take $16 million for three. No one would do this. That’s basically saying he contributes no value. Actually it says he produces negative value and should pay the Nats to play. Under no metric is this the case.

Offline DCFan

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #30: March 05, 2019, 04:16:48 AM »
So he can finish his career as National instead of a Tampa Bay Ray...

He's 10/5 so he isn't going anywhere.  Unfortunately.

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #31: March 05, 2019, 10:42:40 AM »
I think we need sarcasm font on this board. It was a joke, lol.

Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #32: March 05, 2019, 12:11:50 PM »
Offer 3/30 for 2019-2021

Doubtful he takes it.

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #33: March 05, 2019, 12:30:19 PM »
Seems like a lot for a bench bat for 2020 and 2021. What does Matt Adams make?

Offer 3/30 for 2019-2021

Doubtful he takes it.

Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #34: March 05, 2019, 12:38:28 PM »
Seems like a lot for a bench bat for 2020 and 2021. What does Matt Adams make?

Aren't we gonna pay him $20 anyway? If I'm wrong about that then please correct me. I think I read that here. $18 this year, $2 next year as buy out.

If that is correct, giving him 3/30 instead of 1/20 gives us room this year and keeps him with us.

And while it is risky, when he is healthy he hits very well.

Offline Duke of Earl

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #35: March 05, 2019, 12:55:14 PM »
Offer 3/30 for 2019-2021

Doubtful he takes it.
What it comes down to is $10M for two years (20 and 21).  If he wants to keep playing he'll take it.  Doubtful he'd get that deal from another team.

Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #36: March 05, 2019, 01:14:52 PM »
What it comes down to is $10M for two years (20 and 21).  If he wants to keep playing he'll take it.  Doubtful he'd get that deal from another team.

Yeah but sometimes these guys think they can hit to get better

Offline Slateman

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #37: March 05, 2019, 01:18:16 PM »
Seems like a lot for a bench bat for 2020 and 2021. What does Matt Adams make?

4 million

One of them OPS's over .800

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #38: March 05, 2019, 01:27:08 PM »
I can't really see how they'd get their heads together on a deal in which Zimmerman takes a substantial hit this year in exchange for more money down the line.  The guy can still hit, sure, but 35-year-old righthanded 1B coming off an .800 and change OPS season with power, walks, and not much else is Mark Reynolds.  He's on his second consecutive minor league contract.   

If Zimmerman hits substantially better than that, you fall into that grey area where you don't exercise the option but still try to keep him.  The problem is that you don't get to that point until at least July of this season, when the tax benefits to this year are substantially less.


Offline Mattionals

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #40: March 05, 2019, 02:11:30 PM »
I can't really see how they'd get their heads together on a deal in which Zimmerman takes a substantial hit this year in exchange for more money down the line.  The guy can still hit, sure, but 35-year-old righthanded 1B coming off an .800 and change OPS season with power, walks, and not much else is Mark Reynolds.  He's on his second consecutive minor league contract.   

If Zimmerman hits substantially better than that, you fall into that grey area where you don't exercise the option but still try to keep him.  The problem is that you don't get to that point until at least July of this season, when the tax benefits to this year are substantially less.

The way the Nats likely propose this to Zimmerman is that for nostalgia's sake, they want to extend him for two or three(yuck) more years to keep him a Nat for life and he can platoon at 1B. By stretching out this year's salary and tacking on a few more dollars, it makes Zim look good as giving some money back so the team can extend itself financially for more signings, and it also keeps him in a Nats uniform for his entire career, just like he wants.

Again, I honestly think ownership is seriously considering Kimbrel and also want to extend Rendon and likely needs financial wiggle room to do it.

Between the two places where contracts and AAV are published in a way that it's easy to see are Roster Resource and Cot's. RR has 6.5M earmarked for non-arb players and doesn't have the deferral factor for Scherzer's contract factored in. That puts them roughly 6 Million over what Cot's has, and Cot's doesn't factor in Strasburg or Corbin's deferral factors (neither does RR), so it's quite likely that the Nats are looking at something like 15M currently below the threshold.

An extension that restructures Zimmerman's deal to save even 4M a season and a trade of MAT makes signing Kimbrel possible, but any Rendon extension puts the Nats over the threshold, but the amount over they go is probably what they try to manage as much as they can.

Here is my assumption, any Kimbrel deal and/or Rendon extension will come with deferrals. That should lower the AAV slightly. My guess is 5/90 for Kimbrel , 7/210 for Rendon, and 3/27 for Zim. Say the Indians take all of MAT's salary. If I assume that the Nats get back the "tax refund" for Zimmerman and he only comes in at 9M a season AAV hit, and guess that the AAV for Stras is 23M and Corbin is 21M (assuming deferrals) then the Nats would be over by just over 2M, meaning 1M in tax payed out.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #41: March 05, 2019, 02:40:44 PM »
One thing to keep in mind about a Rendon extension is that signing it after the first day of the season I think allows them to defer the first year of the luxury tax threshold hit until next year.  At least it used to be that  way.  I don't know if the way you do it is to have a bonus due after the regular season to bump up this year's pay or whether the bonus can be paid on the signing date, and if there are any other tricks, but we may not have to take a tax hit if we take care of Rendon now.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #42: March 05, 2019, 02:41:06 PM »
The way the Nats likely propose this to Zimmerman is that for nostalgia's sake, they want to extend him for two or three(yuck) more years to keep him a Nat for life and he can platoon at 1B. By stretching out this year's salary and tacking on a few more dollars, it makes Zim look good as giving some money back so the team can extend itself financially for more signings, and it also keeps him in a Nats uniform for his entire career, just like he wants.

Again, I honestly think ownership is seriously considering Kimbrel and also want to extend Rendon and likely needs financial wiggle room to do it.

Between the two places where contracts and AAV are published in a way that it's easy to see are Roster Resource and Cot's. RR has 6.5M earmarked for non-arb players and doesn't have the deferral factor for Scherzer's contract factored in. That puts them roughly 6 Million over what Cot's has, and Cot's doesn't factor in Strasburg or Corbin's deferral factors (neither does RR), so it's quite likely that the Nats are looking at something like 15M currently below the threshold.

An extension that restructures Zimmerman's deal to save even 4M a season and a trade of MAT makes signing Kimbrel possible, but any Rendon extension puts the Nats over the threshold, but the amount over they go is probably what they try to manage as much as they can.

Here is my assumption, any Kimbrel deal and/or Rendon extension will come with deferrals. That should lower the AAV slightly. My guess is 5/90 for Kimbrel , 7/210 for Rendon, and 3/27 for Zim. Say the Indians take all of MAT's salary. If I assume that the Nats get back the "tax refund" for Zimmerman and he only comes in at 9M a season AAV hit, and guess that the AAV for Stras is 23M and Corbin is 21M (assuming deferrals) then the Nats would be over by just over 2M, meaning 1M in tax payed out.

Problem being that if you extend Zimmerman to create space, you're only creating it this year.  You're making the problem worse in the future, when presumably you'd be still paying both guys.  I'm not sure what the upside is in paying Zimmerman more money over the longer term to save luxury tax in the shorter term when you're likely to be facing luxury tax issues next year and down the line if you sign Rendon (remember, Turner starts arb years next year, then Soto will be Super 2 if the cutoff ends up on his side).  Unless you're trying really hard to stay under the line now just to lower future tax bills based on the repeater tax, but that's a dangerous game.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #43: March 05, 2019, 02:43:35 PM »
Problem being that if you extend Zimmerman to create space, you're only creating it this year.  You're making the problem worse in the future, when presumably you'd be still paying both guys.  I'm not sure what the upside is in paying Zimmerman more money over the longer term to save luxury tax in the shorter term when you're likely to be facing luxury tax issues next year and down the line if you sign Rendon (remember, Turner starts arb years next year, then Soto will be Super 2 if the cutoff ends up on his side). 
I think the assumption is you can only get one year below the threshold - this year - to reset, then it will be exceeded as long as we keep Stras, Scherzer, and Rendon on the roster.  Rosenthal is also a hit if we keep him.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #44: March 05, 2019, 02:47:18 PM »
I think the assumption is you can only get one year below the threshold - this year - to reset, then it will be exceeded as long as we keep Stras, Scherzer, and Rendon on the roster.  Rosenthal is also a hit if we keep him.

Yeah, I ninjaed that in. 

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #45: March 05, 2019, 03:02:14 PM »
Yeah, I ninjaed that in.

What would be nice is if there was a logical way to understand how to calculate the luxury tax. Or, just get rid of the tax altogether and put in a hard cap at 240M and a salary floor at 120M.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #46: March 05, 2019, 03:19:17 PM »
What would be nice is if there was a logical way to understand how to calculate the luxury tax. Or, just get rid of the tax altogether and put in a hard cap at 240M and a salary floor at 120M.

I'm with you on all that.

Offline Nick the Pig

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #47: March 07, 2019, 08:52:05 PM »
Good. Waste of a ST roster spot, let alone regular season.

There's a special place in hell for so-called "Nats" fans like you...

Offline Nick the Pig

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #48: March 07, 2019, 08:54:37 PM »
Zimmerman won't play in another uniform.

He'll sign an extremely team friendly ~3 year extension and retire a Nat....