Author Topic: Extend Zimmerman?  (Read 435 times)

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Online bluestreak

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Extend Zimmerman?
« Topic Start: March 04, 2019, 10:43:00 AM »
I think that they will renegotiate Zimm’s deal, no?

Mod Note: split from "Extend Rendon"

Online Duke of Earl

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #1: March 04, 2019, 11:04:30 AM »
I think that they will renegotiate Zimm’s deal, no?
If he isn't willing to negotiate they will buy him out for sure.  $18M is an obscene amount for what he has to offer.  Question is, how much are they willing to pay him to play rather than pay the $2M buyout.  I think he'll be worth about $4M and he almost certainly won't settle for that so I think a buyout is most likely.

Offline aBaltoNat

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #2: March 04, 2019, 11:10:51 AM »
If he isn't willing to negotiate they will buy him out for sure.  $18M is an obscene amount for what he has to offer.  Question is, how much are they willing to pay him to play rather than pay the $2M buyout.  I think he'll be worth about $4M and he almost certainly won't settle for that so I think a buyout is most likely.

Good. Waste of a ST roster spot, let alone regular season.

Online bluestreak

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #3: March 04, 2019, 11:18:20 AM »
I think they will renegotiate this season. So if they say he’s worth 4 million a year say 3 years 27 million. It halves the luxury tax number this year. Or something similar.
I know there are many here who want to just let him drop off after next year, but I don’t think management is going to do that.

And 9+ million this season goes a long way to either getting under the threshold this year or for flexibility at the deadline.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #4: March 04, 2019, 11:40:18 AM »
Could the Mods break this out into a separate Extend Zimm thread?

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #5: March 04, 2019, 11:42:12 AM »
I think they will renegotiate this season. So if they say he’s worth 4 million a year say 3 years 27 million. It halves the luxury tax number this year. Or something similar.
I know there are many here who want to just let him drop off after next year, but I don’t think management is going to do that.

And 9+ million this season goes a long way to either getting under the threshold this year or for flexibility at the deadline.

How does the math work out. I've read on MLBTR that it goes back to the initial deal, which was 6/100. If he signs an extension for 3/27, that turns the deal into a 8/110.333. That moves his luxury tax hit to 13.791M.

What I'm not sure of is all the "back tax" that was accrued. What I mean by that is the Nats essentially paid tax at a rate of 16.67M for 5 years, on tax that with the extension would only be 13.791M. All told, what happens to the 14+Million is tax hit that the Nats paid for Zimmerman in the past? Does that get broken down evenly for the next three years? Something like 4.5M reduced from the 13.791M for those last three seasons?

Online Duke of Earl

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #6: March 04, 2019, 11:49:36 AM »
So if they say he’s worth 4 million a year say 3 years 27 million.

Is that the "New Math"?

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #7: March 04, 2019, 11:49:51 AM »
I would never, ever give Zimmerman more than a one-year contract, based on the previous season's health and productivity.

Offline Smithian

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #8: March 04, 2019, 11:59:16 AM »
If he isn't willing to negotiate they will buy him out for sure.  $18M is an obscene amount for what he has to offer.  Question is, how much are they willing to pay him to play rather than pay the $2M buyout.  I think he'll be worth about $4M and he almost certainly won't settle for that so I think a buyout is most likely.
Zim is an important part of this franchise, but they won't let him be an impediment to signing Rendon. Rendon is the future.

Online Duke of Earl

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #9: March 04, 2019, 12:07:31 PM »
Zim is an important part of this franchise, but they won't let him be an impediment to signing Rendon. Rendon is the future.
So you're saying, I take it, that they'll pay him the $18M if it won't prevent them from signing Rendon.   I think paying him that much is bad business and silly sentimentality.  They have paid him a ton of money so far and he should be grateful for it.  Yes he's been an important part of the franchise and has contributed significantly to its success, but he's been well-compensated for it and the team need not feel an obligation to pay him and additional $18M for about a $4M contribution.

Online bluestreak

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #10: March 04, 2019, 12:15:21 PM »
Is that the "New Math"?

They owe him 18 million for 2019. Plus 2 million for a buyout. So if you tack
On around 4 million per year for 2020 and 2021, it’s 28 million. I assume it’s negotiable and I made it 27 so it was divisible by 3.

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #11: March 04, 2019, 12:20:08 PM »
They owe him 18 million for 2019. Plus 2 million for a buyout. So if you tack
On around 4 million per year for 2020 and 2021, it’s 28 million. I assume it’s negotiable and I made it 27 so it was divisible by 3.

I still don't understand why we would give guaranteed money for age-36 and age-37 seasons to an injury-prone player who can't really play first base? No one in the league is offering him more than a spring training invite next year if he does what he did last season. No other team is gonna be cool with him playing his way into hitting shape over 3 months.

Online bluestreak

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #12: March 04, 2019, 12:30:28 PM »
I still don't understand why we would give guaranteed money for age-36 and age-37 seasons to an injury-prone player who can't really play first base? No one in the league is offering him more than a spring training invite next year if he does what he did last season.

Because I don’t think that this franchise is going to just let the guy walk. And given that I think they will negotiate in a way to let him end his career a Nat and decrease the luxury tax number for next year.

He had an OPS+ of 114 last year and that was with a dreadful April. And 134 the year before that. When he plays he produces.

Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #13: March 04, 2019, 12:45:28 PM »
Because I don’t think that this franchise is going to just let the guy walk. And given that I think they will negotiate in a way to let him end his career a Nat and decrease the luxury tax number for next year.

He had an OPS+ of 114 last year and that was with a dreadful April. And 134 the year before that. When he plays he produces.

Yep. We need him in the lineup for sure. He can’t mis 1/3 of the season again.

Offline varoadking

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #14: March 04, 2019, 12:51:22 PM »
Because I don’t think that this franchise is going to just let the guy walk. And given that I think they will negotiate in a way to let him end his career a Nat and decrease the luxury tax number for next year.

He had an OPS+ of 114 last year and that was with a dreadful April. And 134 the year before that. When he plays he produces.

I don't get Ownership having emotional attachments to players to the degree that they feel compelled to pay to keep them on the field.  The fans, sure...but other than a few Zimm fanbois on WNFF, who's gonna care if they buy him out?

He'll be 35 at the end of the season...that's a pretty good run for any player.  And, if he wasn't under contract, I wouldn't have been surprised if he wasn't let go years ago...he's essentially a replacement level player these days.

There are plenty of far better players in every professional sport that have ended their career's in another city, or bounced around for that matter.  It may even be best for him to land a deal in an AL city where he can DH and not be bothered with actually playing / getting injured...

You know what they say..."If you love somebody...set them free." 

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #15: March 04, 2019, 02:46:26 PM »
The main reason to extend is to free space below the tax threshold. You do this to bring in Kimbrel while keeping Rendon. If you think he will give you 80+ games of league average (1 WAR) play each year, then it's not dumb.

Offline varoadking

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #16: March 04, 2019, 02:52:03 PM »
The main reason to extend is to free space below the tax threshold. You do this to bring in Kimbrel while keeping Rendon. If you think he will give you 80+ games of league average (1 WAR) play each year, then it's not dumb.

Throwing good money after bad...  :couch:

If Mattionals reckoning was correct, and the renegotiation reverts back to the original deal, it doesn't seem that they wouldn't clear enough space to bring in Kimbrel without another corresponding move anyway...

Which brings me back to the discussions we were having before...the Lerner's are going to go over the cap again this year regardless of who we're talking about...and don't we also lose 2 more picks if we do this?

Offline Smithian

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #17: March 04, 2019, 04:30:22 PM »
I'd be okay renegotiating Zimmerman. Two years ago he was really good, and he ended up a 1+ WAR player last season after barely appearing in half the games. I think he has at least two years left in him of being a useful player.

Zim isn't going to sign for 2/20 and just assume we are automatically letting him walk next year. if he doesn't renegotiate If he even is league average at the plate this season he will make some money next year. I wonder if 2/25 would do it. That is more money than his full salary this year, the buyout next year, and a Matt Adams contract elsewhere.

That extra $5.5 mil of 2019 space would put the Nats safely under luxury tax with some flexibility this season while not handicapping them next season. I'd even toss another option year at the end of it as a show of good will.

Offline Smithian

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #18: March 04, 2019, 04:31:18 PM »
I don't get Ownership having emotional attachments to players to the degree that they feel compelled to pay to keep them on the field.  The fans, sure...but other than a few Zimm fanbois on WNFF, who's gonna care if they buy him out?

He'll be 35 at the end of the season...that's a pretty good run for any player.  And, if he wasn't under contract, I wouldn't have been surprised if he wasn't let go years ago...he's essentially a replacement level player these days.

There are plenty of far better players in every professional sport that have ended their career's in another city, or bounced around for that matter.  It may even be best for him to land a deal in an AL city where he can DH and not be bothered with actually playing / getting injured...

You know what they say..."If you love somebody...set them free." 
He's two years off a big time season at the plate and last year in only 84 games he produced 1+ WAR. That is a useful player.

Offline DCFan

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #19: March 04, 2019, 07:09:16 PM »
I think that they will renegotiate Zimm’s deal, no?

Correct, double emphatic no.

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #20: March 04, 2019, 07:25:35 PM »
Throwing good money after bad...  :couch:

If Mattionals reckoning was correct, and the renegotiation reverts back to the original deal, it doesn't seem that they wouldn't clear enough space to bring in Kimbrel without another corresponding move anyway...

Which brings me back to the discussions we were having before...the Lerner's are going to go over the cap again this year regardless of who we're talking about...and don't we also lose 2 more picks if we do this?

Yup, Nats lose two more picks.

Online bluestreak

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #21: March 04, 2019, 08:46:10 PM »
VarK. You want to bet another beer than Zimmerman gets extended?

Offline varoadking

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #22: March 04, 2019, 08:59:26 PM »
VarK. You want to bet another beer than Zimmerman gets extended?

No...you and mitlen broke me on the Harper deal...and you guys gonna have to settle for shots and beer at the Park.  VaRK ain't going to some country club just to buy you guys a shot...  :P

There's no telling what they do with Zimmerman...I just don't think that it makes sense to keep the broken-down anchor any more at any price...so my "prognostications" may be nothing more than wishful thinking.


Offline Mattionals

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #23: March 04, 2019, 09:38:34 PM »
No...you and mitlen broke me on the Harper deal...and you guys gonna have to settle for shots and beer at the Park.  VaRK ain't going to some country club just to buy you guys a shot...  :P

There's no telling what they do with Zimmerman...I just don't think that it makes sense to keep the broken-down anchor any more at any price...so my "prognostications" may be nothing more than wishful thinking.

We should start a campaign to get Zimmerman to agree to a 3 year extension for 16.667M. Then the Nats only pay him this year's salary over the next three years. That is basically what Adams makes a season.

Online bluestreak

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Re: Extend Zimmerman?
« Reply #24: March 04, 2019, 09:43:55 PM »
We should start a campaign to get Zimmerman to agree to a 3 year extension for 16.667M. Then the Nats only pay him this year's salary over the next three years. That is basically what Adams makes a season.

Why would he agree to this?