Author Topic: Is Harper on Pace For HOF  (Read 1039 times)

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Offline Nick the Pig

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Re: Is Harper on Pace For HOF
« Reply #50: March 07, 2019, 07:21:39 PM »
uh cal ripken is in the HOF for more reasons than being popular and playing a lot

No crap, Sherlock !


Offline Nick the Pig

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Re: Is Harper on Pace For HOF
« Reply #51: March 07, 2019, 07:22:57 PM »
Cal Ripken is in the conversation as the best SS of all time.  Especially if you consider that ARod played so many games at 3b.

96 WAR....no one who knows anything about baseball questions Ripken’s bona fides.

I throw up in my mouth a bit when we're in agreement, you know ?

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: Is Harper on Pace For HOF
« Reply #52: March 07, 2019, 07:26:42 PM »
If Harpers stats pile up over 20 years like Cals he'll get in also except he'll have to hit more than 431 homers.

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: Is Harper on Pace For HOF
« Reply #53: March 07, 2019, 07:40:12 PM »
Here's another example of hype and perception over substance and facts. Ozzie Smith is in the HOF because, after all, he is the Wizard. His hitting stats aren't anywhere near HOF standards, in fact fairly dismal. But he did 7 flips and stood on his head before throwing the guy out.

Ozzie and Cals fielding comparison:

They played full time at short at the same time for 11 seasons. For those 11 seasons Cal had more assists 8 times to Ozzies 3.
For those 11 seasons Cal had a better fielding percentage 6 times to Ozzie's 5.

Because Ozzie was older compare Ozzie's first 10 years to Cal's when they should have been at their best.
Ozzie had more assists 6 times to Cals 4.

Offline Nick the Pig

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Re: Is Harper on Pace For HOF
« Reply #54: March 07, 2019, 07:44:00 PM »
If Harpers stats pile up over 20 years like Cals he'll get in also except he'll have to hit more than 431 homers.

He'll also have to display some defensive aptitude.

Cal was one of the best ever because he played both offense and defense well.

Offline varoadking

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Re: Is Harper on Pace For HOF
« Reply #55: March 07, 2019, 07:44:13 PM »
Here's another example of hype and perception over substance and facts. Ozzie Smith is in the HOF because, after all, he is the Wizard. His hitting stats aren't anywhere near HOF standards, in fact fairly dismal. But he did 7 flips and stood on his head before throwing the guy out.

Ozzie and Cals fielding comparison:

They played full time at short at the same time for 11 seasons. For those 11 seasons Cal had more assists 8 times to Ozzies 3.
For those 11 seasons Cal had a better fielding percentage 6 times to Ozzie's 5.

Because Ozzie was older compare Ozzie's first 10 years to Cal's when they should have been at their best.
Ozzie had more assists 6 times to Cals 4.

If your basic premise is that you really don't need to be a great player to get into the HoF if you have a hype train behind you...then I guess Harper is a shoe-in...  ;)


Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Is Harper on Pace For HOF
« Reply #56: March 07, 2019, 07:46:11 PM »
If Harpers stats pile up over 20 years like Cals he'll get in also except he'll have to hit more than 431 homers.

And if harper shifts to short he’s an all time great with those numbers

Offline Nick the Pig

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Re: Is Harper on Pace For HOF
« Reply #57: March 07, 2019, 07:46:14 PM »
If your basic premise is that you really don't need to be a great player to get into the HoF if you have a hype train behind you...then I guess Harper is a shoe-in...  ;)

Oh crap !!!

Yep, this.

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: Is Harper on Pace For HOF
« Reply #58: March 07, 2019, 08:12:01 PM »
So the consensus is if an infielder hits averages .276 hits 21 home runs and 84 RBI's through the course of his career he goes to the HOF. I can't dispute that but when I visit Cooperstown and look at his stats on his plaque am I supposed to be impressed?

Online imref

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Re: Is Harper on Pace For HOF
« Reply #59: March 07, 2019, 08:23:44 PM »
So the consensus is if an infielder hits averages .276 hits 21 home runs and 84 RBI's through the course of his career he goes to the HOF. I can't dispute that but when I visit Cooperstown and look at his stats on his plaque am I supposed to be impressed?

Yes.

Next question?

Online bluestreak

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Re: Is Harper on Pace For HOF
« Reply #60: March 07, 2019, 08:25:57 PM »
You do realize that there is more to baseball than hitting? That players do other stuff when they aren’t in the batters’ box?

Offline Nick the Pig

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Re: Is Harper on Pace For HOF
« Reply #61: March 07, 2019, 08:36:11 PM »
So the consensus is if an infielder hits averages .276 hits 21 home runs and 84 RBI's through the course of his career he goes to the HOF. I can't dispute that but when I visit Cooperstown and look at his stats on his plaque am I supposed to be impressed?

Yep.  The guy was a defensive genius. And offensively pretty good too.

Offline varoadking

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Re: Is Harper on Pace For HOF
« Reply #62: March 07, 2019, 08:52:40 PM »
So the consensus is if an infielder hits averages .276 hits 21 home runs and 84 RBI's through the course of his career he goes to the HOF. I can't dispute that but when I visit Cooperstown and look at his stats on his plaque am I supposed to be impressed?

Not earth shattering offensive stats...sure...but good enough for the HoF...most certainly...

Ripken's 162 game average for home runs is 23 and RBI's 91.  Other than HR's, his offensive stats are better than Brooks Robinson...and he had a 162 game average of 27 home runs and just 76 RBI as a career corner infielder.

Offline Nick the Pig

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Re: Is Harper on Pace For HOF
« Reply #63: March 07, 2019, 08:58:08 PM »
Ripken's 162 game average for home runs is 23 and RBI's 91. 

While playing excellent defense at SS.

How anyone doesn't get this boggles the mind...

Online bluestreak

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Re: Is Harper on Pace For HOF
« Reply #64: March 07, 2019, 09:35:10 PM »
If there were tons of people who could hit as many homers as Ripken and even play passable shortstop, don’t you think they could have found even one in the entire history or baseball?

Offline Nick the Pig

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Re: Is Harper on Pace For HOF
« Reply #65: March 07, 2019, 10:12:53 PM »
If there were tons of people who could hit as many homers as Ripken and even play passable shortstop, don’t you think they could have found even one in the entire history or baseball?

Honus Wagner.  That's it.

Online bluestreak

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Re: Is Harper on Pace For HOF
« Reply #66: March 07, 2019, 10:14:01 PM »
Honus Wagner.  That's it.

101 career home runs.

Online imref

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Re: Is Harper on Pace For HOF
« Reply #67: March 07, 2019, 10:35:20 PM »

Online bluestreak

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Re: Is Harper on Pace For HOF
« Reply #68: March 07, 2019, 10:49:28 PM »
A-Rod?

ARod had 345 homers before he joined the Yankees and switched to 3B. Ripken had 353 HR before switching to 3B in 1997.

I didn’t get down and look game by game.

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: Is Harper on Pace For HOF
« Reply #69: March 07, 2019, 11:11:37 PM »
If there were tons of people who could hit as many homers as Ripken and even play passable shortstop, don’t you think they could have found even one in the entire history or baseball?

He averaged 21 home runs a year and 84 RBIs a year with a .276 average. Good fielder with 2 gold gloves out of 20. One advantage he had was his first couple of years were very good so the cattle crowd went with the hype. Good ambassador for baseball.


If .276/21/84 are good enough for the HOF what isn't. Is it because he played 20 years? If he played 14 should he be in?

Online bluestreak

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Re: Is Harper on Pace For HOF
« Reply #70: March 07, 2019, 11:25:21 PM »
He averaged 21 home runs a year and 84 RBIs a year with a .276 average. Good fielder with 2 gold gloves out of 20. One advantage he had was his first couple of years were very good so the cattle crowd went with the hype. Good ambassador for baseball.


If .276/21/84 are good enough for the HOF what isn't. Is it because he played 20 years? If he played 14 should he be in?

The man had 83 WAR in his first 14 seasons. Which was more than Ken Griffey Jr. had for his entire career. So yes.

I can’t decide if this is serious.

Online Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Is Harper on Pace For HOF
« Reply #71: March 08, 2019, 10:34:20 AM »
He averaged 21 home runs a year and 84 RBIs a year with a .276 average. Good fielder with 2 gold gloves out of 20. One advantage he had was his first couple of years were very good so the cattle crowd went with the hype. Good ambassador for baseball.


If .276/21/84 are good enough for the HOF what isn't. Is it because he played 20 years? If he played 14 should he be in?

For a Gold Glove-level shortstop?  Really? If he played 14 years at that production level he'd still be third all time in HR among players who played more games at SS than anywhere else (and both above him have PED suspensions) and 10th in RBI (and everyone ahead of him played more than 14 seasons, with all but one who are eligible in the Hall aside from PED suspension guys).  And 14 years is a silly argument anyway: every HoF SS whose career started since 1950 has played at least 18 seasons.  The same will be true of the next one (Jeter, 20 seasons, and would be true of Rodriguez as well (22)).

His three rough contemporaries at SS that are in the HoF are Alan Trammel, Ozzie Smith, and Barry Larkin.  We'll leave Smith out, as he's there primarily because of his defense.  The others, using your metrics:

Trammel: 20 seasons, .285, 185 HR, 1003 RBI.  3 Silver Sluggers, 4 Gold Gloves (and of course he was competing head to head with Ripken for both that whole time).  Zero MVPs.
Larkin: 19 seasons, .295, 198 HR, 960 RBI.  7 Silver Sluggers, 3 Gold Gloves (all won after Smith turned 38), 1 MVP.
Ripken: 21 seasons, .276, 431 HR, 1695 RBI.  8 Silver Sluggers, 2 Gold Gloves, 2 MVPs. 

Yes, he had the lowest batting average of the three.  He also had more homers than the other two combined and almost 700 more RBI than either.   He was probably the weakest defender, but not by much, which is something else considering that both Larkin and Trammel were much quicker. 

By the way, that 21/84 career average on HR and RBI:  Both Larkin and Trammel each bettered that total in both categories once in their entire careers. 

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Is Harper on Pace For HOF
« Reply #72: March 08, 2019, 10:36:49 AM »
Whitey Ford only had 236 career wins and a 5.6 K/9. If that's good enough, then what isn't? I mean, after all, his 162 game average is 2.75 ERA and a paltry 142 K a season. :lmao:

Ozzie Smith had a career OPS+ of 87. Barry Larkin directly competed against Ripken and like the above post says, Ripken destroyed him in home runs. What Cal did as a SS was awesome, putting aside his streak.

Online imref

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Re: Is Harper on Pace For HOF
« Reply #73: March 08, 2019, 10:51:54 AM »
Before Ripkin, other than Honus Wagner, there weren't a lot of shortstops who gave you offense.  Ripken redefined the position.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Is Harper on Pace For HOF
« Reply #74: March 08, 2019, 10:55:03 AM »
If Harold Barnes can make the HOF anyone can.