Author Topic: Major Rule Changes being considered  (Read 2862 times)

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Offline imref

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #200: March 13, 2019, 12:22:21 PM »
The Score reports:

Quote
Major League Baseball and the MLB Players Association have agreed to eliminate the August waiver trade period in favor of a single non-waiver trade deadline day for all transactions on July 31, sources told Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic. The deadline-day change, one of several rule changes expected to be ratified by both the league and union after extensive negotiations this spring, will take effect this season.


Online bluestreak

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #202: March 14, 2019, 11:29:43 AM »
From a Passan:

Quote
There will be no trades after July 31. August trade waivers have been eliminated, though players can still be placed on and claimed from outright waivers, as they would throughout the rest of the year.
All-Star voting will still be conducted by fans online, but the top three players at each position will now participate in an All-Star Election Day. The top three vote-getters (top six in the case of outfielders) will receive bonus payments.
The Home Run Derby will now come with $2.5MM of prize money, including a $1MM prize for the winner.
The maximum number of mound visits per game will be reduced from six to five.
Commercial breaks between innings are reduced to two minutes in length for all games.
The MLB and MLBPA will form a “Joint Committee” to discuss further issues and rule changes.
Effective Beginning in 2020

The standard roster size will increase from 25 to 26 players. Beginning on Sept. 1, roster size will expand further to a 28-player maximum (as opposed to the current 40). A maximum number of pitchers will be designated by the Joint Committee. (Passan reported that the league has proposed no more than half a team’s players can be pitchers.)
Position players are only eligible to pitch in extra innings or when a team is leading or trailing by seven or more runs. Certain position players may be designated as “two-way players,” but to be eligible, they’ll need to have accrued at least 20 innings and started 20 games as a position player/designated hitter in their last active season (including at least three trips to the plate in each of those lineup appearances).
A pitcher must face at least three batters in his appearance unless he is removed due to injury or the half-inning in which he is pitching ends before three men have come to the plate.
The minimum length of stay for pitchers who are optioned to the minors or placed on the injured list will increase from 10 days to 15 days.

Online bluestreak

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #203: March 14, 2019, 11:30:20 AM »
So it looks like the 3 batter minimum will be in effect next year...

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #204: March 14, 2019, 11:32:58 AM »
Lots of mlbpa members are relievers - I’m wondering how secure Clark is in his job, because if I’m a loogy, I’m trying to figure out how to replace him before next off season

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #205: March 14, 2019, 11:48:56 AM »
Lots of mlbpa members are relievers - I’m wondering how secure Clark is in his job, because if I’m a loogy, I’m trying to figure out how to replace him before next off season

And more MLBPA members are position players, many of whom are threatened with getting squeezed out of roster spots by one-inning middle relief types.  If I'm an OF who can't play center or an infielder who can't play short, I'm going into Clark's office and telling him to get that limit in ASAP.   Right now there is very little space on rosters for backups who can't play multiple positions (unless they can really mash) and guys are faced with losing years off their careers once they're not quite starter-level anymore. 

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #206: March 14, 2019, 11:50:14 AM »
Tony Clark is pretty terrible at his job. Yeah you get 26 per team but you also lose 12 players getting MLB salaries and healthcare in September, per team. Then the increase to 15 days for guys sent down means teams rotate relievers less now but you also miss out on relievers getting a chance on that shuttle. Now they'll just keep them in AAA. Further, the injured list returning to 15 days minimum means players are 100% going to hide injuries.

They also get shorter breaks between innings, an "Election Day" means less pub for lesser-known players campaigning for ASG spots. Really great work, Tony! At least you got, uh, a million dollars for the Bryce Harpers of the world.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #207: March 14, 2019, 11:52:01 AM »
And more MLBPA members are position players, many of whom are threatened with getting squeezed out of roster spots by one-inning middle relief types.  If I'm an OF who can't play center or an infielder who can't play short, I'm going into Clark's office and telling him to get that limit in ASAP.   Right now there is very little space on rosters for backups who can't play multiple positions (unless they can really mash) and guys are faced with losing years off their careers once they're not quite starter-level anymore. 

If they think unused backups are going to be paid, they’re idiots. This seems like a great way to split a union prior to a strike, I’m wondering if that was the mlb’s goal all along

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #208: March 14, 2019, 12:09:21 PM »
Tony Clark is pretty terrible at his job. Yeah you get 26 per team but you also lose 12 players getting MLB salaries and healthcare in September, per team. Then the increase to 15 days for guys sent down means teams rotate relievers less now but you also miss out on relievers getting a chance on that shuttle. Now they'll just keep them in AAA. Further, the injured list returning to 15 days minimum means players are 100% going to hide injuries.

They also get shorter breaks between innings, an "Election Day" means less pub for lesser-known players campaigning for ASG spots. Really great work, Tony! At least you got, uh, a million dollars for the Bryce Harpers of the world.

It's a complete loss if the next CBA doesn't change minor league pay and salaries during team control years. Just spitballing, I would offer something like:
  • First 3 years should be $500K/$1.25M/$2M
  • 2 option years similar to a franchise tag where you can pay the qualifying offer and 125% of the qualifying offer
  • If you decline an option year the player hits free agency

That would shorten max team control by one year, and effectively shorten team control for role players. I especially hate the current system for pitchers, who live year-to-year at cut-rate salaries, waiting for an inevitable injury. You either live on the edge like Blake Treinen (receiving his first real big money year this season) or you're forced to take whatever a team offers you in long-term security like Felipe Vazquez, who basically signed away his entire career for little more than the top guys make in a year.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #209: March 14, 2019, 12:17:05 PM »
I wouldn't expect anything to improve for minor leaguers- they aren't union members so I doubt anyone will take a stand on their behalf

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #210: March 14, 2019, 12:18:11 PM »
The only major change to minor leaguers I can see happening is getting spring training pay. It's such bullcrap that teams don't pay players during spring training or extended spring training.

Offline imref

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #211: March 14, 2019, 12:20:14 PM »
is there any chance the league would accept a salary floor?

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #212: March 14, 2019, 12:21:41 PM »
is there any chance the league would accept a salary floor?

Probably not without a hard cap

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #213: March 14, 2019, 12:23:36 PM »
Probably not without a hard cap

even then, large market owners may balk

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #214: March 14, 2019, 12:31:42 PM »
even then, large market owners may balk

yup. though, the yankees are the biggest of big market teams and they have made getting under the luxury tax a big priority and have said you don't need $250 million in payroll to win. i could see a hard cap at $200mm with a floor at $100mm to start, but even that would take some groundbreaking moves from MLB

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #215: March 14, 2019, 12:33:20 PM »
yup. though, the yankees are the biggest of big market teams and they have made getting under the luxury tax a big priority and have said you don't need $250 million in payroll to win. i could see a hard cap at $200mm with a floor at $100mm to start, but even that would take some groundbreaking moves from MLB

at the same time, parity sounds great, but I don't think Yankee/Dodger/Red Sox owners would be happy averaging a ring every thirty years

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #216: March 14, 2019, 01:11:56 PM »
If they think unused backups are going to be paid, they’re idiots. This seems like a great way to split a union prior to a strike, I’m wondering if that was the mlb’s goal all along

They get paid just the same as the types who round out the ass end of bullpens, which is a lot more than a MiLB salary in both cases. 

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #217: March 14, 2019, 01:45:41 PM »
Loogys can make a couple of million per, the extra hitters on an expanded bench (especially in the AL) will be league minimum guys

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #218: March 14, 2019, 01:58:58 PM »
Loogys can make a couple of million per, the extra hitters on an expanded bench (especially in the AL) will be league minimum guys

Good LOOGYs can make a couple million a year, just like extra bench bats sometimes do.  But LOOGYs are dying out without this initiative anyway, and most of them now are in fact league-minimum guys.  When Tony Sipp - who was most definitely a LOOGY last year and did very well at it - gets $1.25 million and borderline utility guys like Daniel Descalso, Chris Owings, and Josh Harrison are getting $2-3 million, I'm not sure that argument holds much water. 

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #219: March 14, 2019, 02:01:49 PM »
Good LOOGYs can make a couple million a year, just like extra bench bats sometimes do.  But LOOGYs are dying out without this initiative anyway, and most of them now are in fact league-minimum guys.  When Tony Sipp - who was most definitely a LOOGY last year and did very well at it - gets $1.25 million and borderline utility guys like Daniel Descalso, Chris Owings, and Josh Harrison are getting $2-3 million, I'm not sure that argument holds much water. 

Theses are extra extra bench bats though- my guess is that the ones in the AL will never play (maybe have some punch runners?). These will be guys worse than the last guy currently on benches, and those last guys are usually league minimum

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #220: March 14, 2019, 02:05:20 PM »
Theses are extra extra bench bats though- my guess is that the ones in the AL will never play (maybe have some punch runners?). These will be guys worse than the last guy currently on benches, and those last guys are usually league minimum

How many bullpens are there that don't open the season with at least one league minimum guy?   Your argument is that the relievers will be paid more than the bench guys.  What I posted is at least some evidence that the ends of benches are sometimes well above league minimum, which is rather the opposite of what you're arguing. 

My whole point, however, is that the ends of the rosters right now are typically league minimum for both position players and relievers.  It doesn't matter where the roster spot goes - it's likely to be league minimum either place.   Yet the union has more position players than relievers, suggesting more people interested in the spot being in one column than the other.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #221: March 14, 2019, 02:21:31 PM »
How many bullpens are there that don't open the season with at least one league minimum guy?   Your argument is that the relievers will be paid more than the bench guys.  What I posted is at least some evidence that the ends of benches are sometimes well above league minimum, which is rather the opposite of what you're arguing. 

My whole point, however, is that the ends of the rosters right now are typically league minimum for both position players and relievers.  It doesn't matter where the roster spot goes - it's likely to be league minimum either place.   Yet the union has more position players than relievers, suggesting more people interested in the spot being in one column than the other.

you posted evidence that some bench bats get paid, not that additional bench bats will get paid. The three batter minimum eliminates the loogy - guys who can make two or three times league minimum. In exchange, you grow the bench. 

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #222: March 14, 2019, 05:56:13 PM »
you posted evidence that some bench bats get paid, not that additional bench bats will get paid. The three batter minimum eliminates the loogy - guys who can make two or three times league minimum. In exchange, you grow the bench.

I think we're discussing two separate changes.  (1) 3-batter minimum: likely eliminates LOOGYs, but they are more likely to be replaced with another pitcher (on a min salary) than another player.  (2) limiting pitchers on rosters may shift balance towards position players, but it's likely trading off a bullpen arm near minimum for a position player, likely also near minimum.   

If the issue is simply LOOGYs and you're Clark, you have to look at the thing overall: you're getting an extra roster spot (2 minimum salaries at worst) in exchange for eliminating the LOOGY, guys who more often than not are on minimum salaries as well.    By my count, there are only 4 (possibly 5) LOOGYs for this year on contracts more than $1.5 million, and most of them are paid like that because they're good enough to also get out righties.   That's not a lot of money to risk leaving on the table in exchange for 30 extra jobs. 

As for my post, the point was that guys like Descalso, who are almost paradigmatic 25th men, are getting significantly above minimum.  Not always, but sometimes.   This evidence suggests that for at least some teams, they'd add a 26th man above minimum.  There's really no way to know, but there's a decent gap there.   It doesn't really matter. 

Offline Count Walewski

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #223: March 14, 2019, 08:25:22 PM »
Tony Clark is pretty terrible at his job. Yeah you get 26 per team but you also lose 12 players getting MLB salaries and healthcare in September, per team. Then the increase to 15 days for guys sent down means teams rotate relievers less now but you also miss out on relievers getting a chance on that shuttle. Now they'll just keep them in AAA. Further, the injured list returning to 15 days minimum means players are 100% going to hide injuries.

They also get shorter breaks between innings, an "Election Day" means less pub for lesser-known players campaigning for ASG spots. Really great work, Tony! At least you got, uh, a million dollars for the Bryce Harpers of the world.

Tony Clark got re-elected after negotiating the last CBA which in retrospect is seen as great for the owners. He clearly has some kind of appeal that us fans can't see.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #224: March 14, 2019, 08:28:19 PM »
Tony Clark got re-elected after negotiating the last CBA which in retrospect is seen as great for the owners. He clearly has some kind of appeal that us fans can't see.

He’s one of them- ironically, they’ve done pretty well just using labor lawyers in the past who where as far from atheletes as possible