Author Topic: Major Rule Changes being considered  (Read 3829 times)

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Online bluestreak

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #175: March 06, 2019, 02:23:51 PM »
then you're going to have to further balloon the rule book to tightly define positions unless you want teams just happening to have position players regularly pitching

less fouls doesnt add base runners though

Under Silver’s plan position players could only face as many batters as they have plate appearances. This would probably keep teams from stashing a pitcher as a position player.

Online varoadking

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #176: March 06, 2019, 02:33:35 PM »
I don't see the union blessing a limit on pitchers.  It's all fun and games until someone's career is ended because he was left in the game with no other pitchers available.

It's just wrong...and I don't see why continuing to tamper with the game with gimmicks is seen as anything but.  As mitlen said...they are trying to reach an audience they will never reach...

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #177: March 06, 2019, 02:46:13 PM »
Under Silver’s plan position players could only face as many batters as they have plate appearances. This would probably keep teams from stashing a pitcher as a position player.

I don’t like thickening the rule book, then adding more to clarify definitions, then more to cover exceptions- eventually you end up like the nfl with an impenetrable tome

Online bluestreak

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #178: March 06, 2019, 02:59:16 PM »
I don't see the union blessing a limit on players.  It's all fun and games until someone's career is ended because he was left in the game with no other pitchers available.

It's just wrong...and I don't see why continuing to tamper with the game with gimmicks is seen as anything but.  As mitlen said...they are trying to reach an audience they will never reach...

Literally every other sport changes to adapt to the abilities of those playing. And to trends in the game.  It’s not “gimmicks” any more than using a string of relievers is a gimmick compared to how baseball was played 20 years ago. It’s adapting to situation.

I grew up on baseball. I love baseball. And I now find it much more boring now than it used to be. I’m not sure why they should just write someone like me off.

As for limits, since there aren’t unlimited rosters and extra inning games exist as well as the inability to re-use players there already are limits, no? Position players pitched a record number of innings last year. Doesn’t seem any more dangerous than it already is.

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #179: March 06, 2019, 03:04:17 PM »
I don't see the union blessing a limit on pitchers.  It's all fun and games until someone's career is ended because he was left in the game with no other pitchers available.

It's just wrong...and I don't see why continuing to tamper with the game with gimmicks is seen as anything but.  As mitlen said...they are trying to reach an audience they will never reach...
We need to go back to having to hit the runner with the ball to get him out. Like when you and Mitlen played.  8)

Online varoadking

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #180: March 06, 2019, 03:05:15 PM »
Literally every other sport changes to adapt to the abilities of those playing. And to trends in the game.  It’s not “gimmicks” any more than using a string of relievers is a gimmick compared to how baseball was played 20 years ago. It’s adapting to situation.

I grew up on baseball. I love baseball. And I now find it much more boring now than it used to be. I’m not sure why they should just write someone like me off.

As for limits, since there aren’t unlimited rosters and extra inning games exist as well as the inability to re-use players there already are limits, no? Position players pitched a record number of innings last year. Doesn’t seem any more dangerous than it already is.

Position players are used routinely in blow-outs...I'm guessing we've had more of those with all the crappy teams that currently plague MLB...

Guessing it's more boring because there are too many teams and fewer quality players for each team than there were years ago.  Does anyone have anything remotely resembling Murderer's Row anymore?

I changed what I typed above to clarify...I meant to refer only to pitchers and not all players as far as limits.  Let them have 25-26 pitchers as far as I'm concerned...the League should not be in the business of roster building.

I would be in favor of one mound visit by the manager/coach per pitcher and having to pull them on the second...just like the old days we fondly remember...


Online imref

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #181: March 06, 2019, 03:05:27 PM »
We need to go back to having to hit the runner with the ball to get him out. Like when you and Mitlen played.  8)

The most fun aspect of coaching t-ball is teaching the 5 year olds not to do that. :)

Online varoadking

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #182: March 06, 2019, 03:05:49 PM »
We need to go back to having to hit the runner with the ball to get him out. Like when you and Mitlen played.  8)

That was the dead ball era...didn't hurt so much...  ;)

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #183: March 06, 2019, 03:08:38 PM »
then you're going to have to further balloon the rule book to tightly define positions unless you want teams just happening to have position players regularly pitching
he actually has a couple of ideas on that.

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #184: March 06, 2019, 03:12:41 PM »
That was the dead ball era...didn't hurt so much...  ;)
Those were the days. 

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #185: March 06, 2019, 03:17:01 PM »
he actually has a couple of ideas on that.

all of which add needless complexity to the rule book in the hope that blowing out a few relievers' arms results in more hits

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #186: March 06, 2019, 05:01:38 PM »
all of which add needless complexity to the rule book in the hope that blowing out a few relievers' arms results in more hits

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that more relievers would get hurt.  If anything, this expectation that guys be ready to throw 25 max-effort pitches multiple times per week (plus however many times they're warmed up and not used) is worse.  There were 38 pitchers last season with 70 or more appearances, 8 with 75 or more.  In 2017, there were 32.  Of those 32, 8 also had 75 or more.  That level of usage ruins guys.

Of those 8 who made 75 or more appearances in 2017, six of the 8 spent time on the disabled list in 2018.  In 2018, their ERAs were as follows: 4.45, 5.93, 3.22, 4.50, 3.58, 6.00, 4.85, 6.26.  None of them exceeded 4 in 2017 (which of course partly explains their heavy use).   The 3.22 is a LOOGY and the 3.58 was coming off a 1.78 season in 2017.

If managers can't manage with the expectation that they can use 4 or 5 different relievers every day, they'll adjust the usage patterns back to what it used to be: longer stints less often.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #187: March 06, 2019, 05:15:18 PM »
I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that more relievers would get hurt.  If anything, this expectation that guys be ready to throw 25 max-effort pitches multiple times per week (plus however many times they're warmed up and not used) is worse.  There were 38 pitchers last season with 70 or more appearances, 8 with 75 or more.  In 2017, there were 32.  Of those 32, 8 also had 75 or more.  That level of usage ruins guys.

Of those 8 who made 75 or more appearances in 2017, six of the 8 spent time on the disabled list in 2018.  In 2018, their ERAs were as follows: 4.45, 5.93, 3.22, 4.50, 3.58, 6.00, 4.85, 6.26.  None of them exceeded 4 in 2017 (which of course partly explains their heavy use).   The 3.22 is a LOOGY and the 3.58 was coming off a 1.78 season in 2017.

If managers can't manage with the expectation that they can use 4 or 5 different relievers every day, they'll adjust the usage patterns back to what it used to be: longer stints less often.

Or relievers will become even more disposable (which I’m not sure the owners would mind too much); I don’t see much changing with usage other than more guys getting called up when the current crop hit the DL

Online bluestreak

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #188: March 06, 2019, 05:28:30 PM »
all of which add needless complexity to the rule book in the hope that blowing out a few relievers' arms results in more hits

Have complicated is “a team can not have more that 10 pitchers designated for each game. Any non pitcher may not face more batters in a season than he has had plate apperances in the same season.” ?

Online varoadking

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #189: March 06, 2019, 05:36:37 PM »
Have complicated is “a team can not have more that 10 pitchers designated for each game. Any non pitcher may not face more batters in a season than he has had plate apperances in the same season.” ?

Math is hard...  ;)

Leave the game alone...they are gonna tinker with it until they run everyone off...like NASCAR...

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #190: March 06, 2019, 05:38:30 PM »
Have complicated is “a team can not have more that 10 pitchers designated for each game. Any non pitcher may not face more batters in a season than he has had plate apperances in the same season.” ?

So basically, the AL DHs relievers any time a game is out of hand and the NL has pitchers playing left and first when a game gets out of hand so that they can be called pinch hitters not relievers when the team turns in rosters

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #191: March 06, 2019, 05:39:57 PM »
I’d like them to add a tenth fielder like softball.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #192: March 06, 2019, 07:18:25 PM »
Or relievers will become even more disposable (which I’m not sure the owners would mind too much); I don’t see much changing with usage other than more guys getting called up when the current crop hit the DL

Unless you change the options rules, it's hard to keep enough effective relievers around to do that.  And with only 5 out there, you literally can't do what current usage is (average of 3.36 relievers per team per game) unless you are expecting some guys to pitch in 100+ games if they don't get hurt or every single guy you have out there has options available.  The math just doesn't work.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #193: March 06, 2019, 07:43:04 PM »
Unless you change the options rules, it's hard to keep enough effective relievers around to do that.  And with only 5 out there, you literally can't do what current usage is (average of 3.36 relievers per team per game) unless you are expecting some guys to pitch in 100+ games if they don't get hurt or every single guy you have out there has options available.  The math just doesn't work.

Pitch until dl, next guy up. You’ll still probably end up with better results than a bunch of long men pitching at a level that they can go two or three innings at a clip

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #194: March 06, 2019, 07:58:05 PM »
Pitch until dl, next guy up. You’ll still probably end up with better results than a bunch of long men pitching at a level that they can go two or three innings at a clip

With guys pitching 4 times per week, every week?  I highly doubt it.  You'd either have 10 guys on the DL by the end of June or they'd have ERAs in the 6s.  Have you ever tried to pitch 3 times in 4 days? Know what your arm feels like that last time out?

And why would you pitch guys until they get hurt? You'd very quickly be down to having guys like Solis and Jimmy Cordero pitching in the 8th and 9th innings of close games.   Theh the next year you'd be able to sign exactly zero free agents to replace them given that abuse.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #195: March 06, 2019, 08:11:08 PM »
Getting hurt is pretty inevitable when you have five relievers paired with starters going six innings

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #196: March 06, 2019, 08:25:21 PM »
Getting hurt is pretty inevitable when you have five relievers paired with starters going six innings

It's really not.  Say you play 6 games a week and your starters average even 17 outs (5 and 2/3).  Worst case for bullpen usage is you win every game so you need to record 27 outs every time.  That leaves  10 outs per game - 60 outs per week- to be spread across 5 guys.  Twelve outs, or 4 innings, per week, per reliever.   Just don't use 3 different relievers in the same game frequently and you'll quickly be bringing appearance numbers down into the 50s per reliever.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #197: March 06, 2019, 08:37:26 PM »
It's really not.  Say you play 6 games a week and your starters average even 17 outs (5 and 2/3).  Worst case for bullpen usage is you win every game so you need to record 27 outs every time.  That leaves  10 outs per game - 60 outs per week- to be spread across 5 guys.  Twelve outs, or 4 innings, per week, per reliever.   Just don't use 3 different relievers in the same game frequently and you'll quickly be bringing appearance numbers down into the 50s per reliever.

4 innings every 6 games works out to ~108 innings per reliever, or not quite double their current workload

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #198: March 07, 2019, 11:39:10 AM »
4 innings every 6 games works out to ~108 innings per reliever, or not quite double their current workload

Most guys can handle that innings load, which is still far less than starters.  It's keeping the number of appearances down.   The problem would be the first season of doing this: you'd need to slowly roll back from 12 to 11 to 10 pitchers allowed or you'd have relievers instantly doubling their IP, which would lead to an immediate wave of injuries.

And note, of course, that this all assumes starters continue to not be pushed beyond their pathetic current output of less than 5.5 innings per start.    If that ticks up even by 2 outs, the calculation above changes meaningfully.

Offline DCFan

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