Author Topic: Major Rule Changes being considered  (Read 2905 times)

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Offline nfotiu

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Major Rule Changes being considered
« Topic Start: February 06, 2019, 09:09:38 AM »
I don't know if this belongs in the clubhouse, but some pretty major changes being discussed, and sounds like they are being discussed fairly seriously with the possibility of implementing this year.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/25935056/mlb-players-discussing-rule-changes-alter-game

I can't say I'm in favor of many of these.  3 batter minimum and DH to the NL both take away a lot of strategy from the game.  20 second pitch clock that turns off with runners on base sounds fine.  I was surprised to see no rule about shifts.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #1: February 06, 2019, 09:17:50 AM »
I don't know if this belongs in the clubhouse, but some pretty major changes being discussed, and sounds like they are being discussed fairly seriously with the possibility of implementing this year.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/25935056/mlb-players-discussing-rule-changes-alter-game

I can't say I'm in favor of many of these.  3 batter minimum and DH to the NL both take away a lot of strategy from the game.  20 second pitch clock that turns off with runners on base sounds fine.  I was surprised to see no rule about shifts.

Quote
A rule that would allow two-sport amateurs to sign major league contracts

Boras will have all his guys lined up to curl professionally. That seriously seems like an exception that could turn into a major loophole depending on how they define two sport athlete

Offline bluestreak

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #2: February 06, 2019, 09:23:02 AM »
I don't know if this belongs in the clubhouse, but some pretty major changes being discussed, and sounds like they are being discussed fairly seriously with the possibility of implementing this year.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/25935056/mlb-players-discussing-rule-changes-alter-game

I can't say I'm in favor of many of these.  3 batter minimum and DH to the NL both take away a lot of strategy from the game.  20 second pitch clock that turns off with runners on base sounds fine.  I was surprised to see no rule about shifts.

3 batter minimum, I absolutely love. It will speed up games and make it less likely to have huge bullpens and maybe keep extra position players on the bench. It also will probably decrease strikeouts and increase offense. They are also considering a 26 man roster, so the rule would keep teams from using that spot for still another reliever.

I used to be completely against the NL DH, but I’m starting to come around a bit. Pitchers are awful at hitting, The rules disadvantage the NL in the World Series and inter league and adding a DH really increases your player options. For instance, it might be nice to put Zim at DH to keep him healthier or to have brought back Murphy for his bat.

I think instituting this year would be weird though. I would think that you would want to give teams a whole offseason to build their rosters around the changes.

Offline phil219

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #3: February 06, 2019, 09:25:36 AM »
3 batter minimum for a pitcher is a terrible rule that will fundamentally alter the game's strategy. Just say no.

The rest are irrelevant and dumb rules, except universal DH can be realistically debated on both the pro and con side.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #4: February 06, 2019, 09:40:17 AM »
3 batter minimum for a pitcher is a terrible rule that will fundamentally alter the game's strategy. Just say no.

The rest are irrelevant and dumb rules, except universal DH can be realistically debated on both the pro and con side.
I like most of the rules. Baseball is stuck in the past and that’s why it continues to lose younger fans.

For 100 years or more the game was played with pitchers hardly ever coming in to face only one batter. It’s a recent development. I don’t think there’s any data to show that it actually works. I could live without it. It just forces a different type of strategy decision by managers if they require 3 batters faced.

I never really liked the DH but I think it will help with the younger fans also.

A pitch clock will only work if the bumps enforce it and balls and strikes are called against pitchers and batters when they violate it.

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #5: February 06, 2019, 09:44:07 AM »
3 batter minimum for a pitcher is a terrible rule that will fundamentally alter the game's strategy. Just say no.

Couldn't you also argue that you're making that change to try to restore baseball back to a better version of the game? In 1980, teams averaged 15 pitchers used for the season. In 2018, they averaged 27 pitchers used for the season.

Toronto led the league with 36 pitchers used last season. They pitched 22 guys out of their bullpen. Almost none of their RP averaged an inning per game.

I don't know, it's just a little much. To draw a parallel, I don't really like what analytics has done to the NBA - I think layups and 3s are kinda boring. If they extended the 3-point line to 25 feet and brought back mid-range jumpers, I guess you could argue that's "fundamentally altering the game's strategy" but it's also altering it back to when the game was more enjoyable to watch imo.

Offline imref

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #6: February 06, 2019, 09:46:30 AM »
if the NL adopts the DH, I'm pretty much done with baseball.  Seems most of the rest of the changes will kill the intricacies/strategies of the sport.   Draft penalties are an interesting concept, but I'd rather see a salary floor (something the owners will likely never support).


Offline bluestreak

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #7: February 06, 2019, 09:54:29 AM »
if the NL adopts the DH, I'm pretty much done with baseball.  Seems most of the rest of the changes will kill the intricacies/strategies of the sport.   Draft penalties are an interesting concept, but I'd rather see a salary floor (something the owners will likely never support).

If you’re willing to give up baseball just because the NL introduces the DH, one could argue you don’t really like baseball that much to begin with.

Offline imref

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #8: February 06, 2019, 10:33:00 AM »
If you’re willing to give up baseball just because the NL introduces the DH, one could argue you don’t really like baseball that much to begin with.

the game with the DH isn't baseball.   It's like comparing chess to checkers.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #9: February 06, 2019, 10:34:57 AM »
the game with the DH isn't baseball.   It's like comparing chess to checkers.

college baseball and minor league baseball isn't baseball?

Offline imref

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #10: February 06, 2019, 10:39:51 AM »
college baseball and minor league baseball isn't baseball?

IIRC, AA and AAA NL leagues don't have a DH except for the PCL (and there it's by manager agreement when two NL affiliates are playing against one another). I just don't see how removing 50% of the strategy of the game improves the game.

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #11: February 06, 2019, 10:43:14 AM »
I just don't see how removing 50% of the strategy of the game improves the game.

This seems like a bit of an overstatement :)

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #12: February 06, 2019, 10:46:33 AM »
I just don't see how removing 50% of the strategy of the game improves the game.

That's a pretty big overstatement.

Offline imref

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #13: February 06, 2019, 10:48:54 AM »
That's a pretty big overstatement.

Maybe, but still, I think it fundamentally alters the game, and not in a good way.   I like seeing Scherzer at bat.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #14: February 06, 2019, 10:51:34 AM »
That's a pretty big overstatement.

on offense, and AL manager can set their lineup and just let it ride. Maybe they pinch hit late for a match-up (of course the three batter rule gets rid of lefty specialists so maybe late game substitutions becomes less of a thing in the al). In the NL when to pull pitchers adds the batting dynamic- 50% doesn't seem like too much of an exaggeration

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #15: February 06, 2019, 11:18:52 AM »
on offense, and AL manager can set their lineup and just let it ride. Maybe they pinch hit late for a match-up (of course the three batter rule gets rid of lefty specialists so maybe late game substitutions becomes less of a thing in the al). In the NL when to pull pitchers adds the batting dynamic- 50% doesn't seem like too much of an exaggeration

if you look at it that way, yeah, but i consider shifting as part of the strategy and the DH does change how managers set lineups on a daily basis (easier to work in bench players). i feel like i saw a decent amount of pinch-hitting in the AL the last few years as well as double-switches/defensive replacements but i may be mindfacting

personally i like each way for its own reasons, AL baseball is more exciting to me as there's more chance for offense/bats in the lineups but NL baseball has those fun moments every week or so with pitchers in the game

Offline bluestreak

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #16: February 06, 2019, 11:21:11 AM »
IIRC, AA and AAA NL leagues don't have a DH except for the PCL (and there it's by manager agreement when two NL affiliates are playing against one another). I just don't see how removing 50% of the strategy of the game improves the game.

All AAA And AA leagues have the DH unless it’s two NL affiliates. The default is the DH. A and below always use the DH. All the international leagues use the DH.
And they play decent baseball in the AL.

So you have all these pitchers that come up and don’t bat in don’t bat in high school or college. They don’t bat in low minors. When they finally advance they start hitting, but only in like half the games. And they hit like it. Pitcher batting averages have steadily declined.
The NL is literally the only league on Earth that plays baseball this way.

I’m not sure if I want the switch. I can see it from both sides. But to say if you don’t have the DH, it’s not baseball, is ludicrous.

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #17: February 06, 2019, 11:23:29 AM »
50% doesn't seem like too much of an exaggeration

There are literally like 150+ pitches a game that all involve a strategic decision to be made. Defensive coaches position players individually from batter to batter, and sometimes from pitch to pitch. Players and coaches together make split-second decisions on whether to take extra bases on base hits. Fielders make split-second decisions on whether to try to squeeze extra outs, get the lead runner, etc.

Yes, it's a gross exaggeration to say that the 0-1 times a game where you have to decide whether to pinch hit for the pitcher - is 50% of the strategy of baseball.

Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #18: February 06, 2019, 11:27:06 AM »
My thoughts on the rules:

I don't mind the three batter minimum to much.
I don't want the DH, but think it's something of an inevitability.
I like the pitch clock and might even go a little quicker, like 15 secs.
I even like the extra innings proposal.
No need to lower the mound.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #19: February 06, 2019, 11:34:52 AM »
There are literally like 150+ pitches a game that all involve a strategic decision to be made. Defensive coaches position players individually from batter to batter, and sometimes from pitch to pitch. Players and coaches together make split-second decisions on whether to take extra bases on base hits. Fielders make split-second decisions on whether to try to squeeze extra outs, get the lead runner, etc.

Yes, it's a gross exaggeration to say that the 0-1 times a game where you have to decide whether to pinch hit for the pitcher - is 50% of the strategy of baseball.

when he was yankees manager joe girardi would work with gary sanchez on calling games on a pitch-by-pitch basis during at-bats

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #20: February 06, 2019, 12:07:43 PM »
the game with the DH isn't baseball.   It's like comparing chess to checkers.

Maybe they could add back complexity, like when you sub in a pitcher, you can move your DH in the batting order. Sort of like a double switch.

Shrug. I'm not in love with the idea of a DH, but it won't ruin baseball for me. The most popular teams in the country use DHs.

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #21: February 06, 2019, 12:11:00 PM »
My thoughts on the rules:

I don't mind the three batter minimum to much.
I don't want the DH, but think it's something of an inevitability.
I like the pitch clock and might even go a little quicker, like 15 secs.
I even like the extra innings proposal.
No need to lower the mound.

Interesting that you don't mind the extra innings proposal.  That's the one I dislike the most. That, to my mind, would make baseball much less unique. It's not a clock, but...

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #22: February 06, 2019, 12:12:23 PM »
All AAA And AA leagues have the DH unless it’s two NL affiliates. The default is the DH. A and below always use the DH. All the international leagues use the DH.
And they play decent baseball in the AL.

So you have all these pitchers that come up and don’t bat in don’t bat in high school or college. They don’t bat in low minors. When they finally advance they start hitting, but only in like half the games. And they hit like it. Pitcher batting averages have steadily declined.
The NL is literally the only league on Earth that plays baseball this way.

I’m not sure if I want the switch. I can see it from both sides. But to say if you don’t have the DH, it’s not baseball, is ludicrous.

Sure, but the obvious counterargument is that the answer is to eliminate the DH everywhere.  I'd far prefer that.   I think it should matter whether your pitchers can hit or not.  I mean, why don't we suddenly start DHing for catchers?  Most of them aren't good hitters either. 

For the same reason, I favor the minimum batters for pitchers and 12-pitcher roster limit.  I'd prefer to keep it at 25, but I see the need to appease the union and there might be some quality benefit. 

Over-specialization is part of what made football tedious and unwatchable and it's doing the same to baseball.  By that I mean "too freaking many relief pitchers" and "the DH." 

Offline imref

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #23: February 06, 2019, 12:18:06 PM »
Sure, but the obvious counterargument is that the answer is to eliminate the DH everywhere.  I'd far prefer that.   I think it should matter whether your pitchers can hit or not.  I mean, why don't we suddenly start DHing for catchers?  Most of them aren't good hitters either. 

For the same reason, I favor the minimum batters for pitchers and 12-pitcher roster limit.  I'd prefer to keep it at 25, but I see the need to appease the union and there might be some quality benefit. 

Over-specialization is part of what made football tedious and unwatchable and it's doing the same to baseball.  By that I mean "too freaking many relief pitchers" and "the DH." 

Agreed.

Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: Major Rule Changes being considered
« Reply #24: February 06, 2019, 02:04:33 PM »
Man, a LOOGY mass extinction like the dodo bird or passenger pigeon.