Author Topic: ECONOMICS AND THE ILEGALS.  (Read 2510 times)

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Offline nospinzone1

  • Posts: 3083
Re: ECONOMICS AND THE ILEGALS.
« Reply #25: May 27, 2007, 11:25:45 PM »
Lets be clear....I love this country and I would never knowingly rag on my adopted country....I was in the armed forces six years...I vote, unlike a lot of "real" citizens that do not take the trouble to.....I have never had a single penny of U.S. assistance in my life, no welfare, no food stamps, no nothing.

Offline Dave B

  • Posts: 6019
Re: ECONOMICS AND THE ILEGALS.
« Reply #26: May 28, 2007, 02:44:08 AM »
"I'm not saying open the borders and let people come in.  I'm just saying that illegals are not simply people sitting on their couches eating prescription drugs and using food stamps for toilet paper.

REALLY? WHAT ABOUT THE THOUSANDS OF GANG MEMBERS, THE DRUG DEALERS, THE PROSTITUTES AND THEIR PIMPS?

WHO? THE CITZEN GANG MEMBERS, DRUG DEALERS, PROSTITUTES AND PIMPS.

YOU HAVE REALLY CONTRIBUTED NOTHING TO THIS THREAD ASIDE FROM OUTRAGEOUS CLAIMS AND POSTING ARTICLES. THE LATTER OF WHICH IS USEFUL WHEN RELEVANT. 

Offline NatsAddict

  • Posts: 4095
Re: ECONOMICS AND THE ILEGALS.
« Reply #27: May 28, 2007, 08:16:47 AM »
Quick reply for now:

I'm not saying open the borders and let people come in.  I'm just saying that illegals are not simply people sitting on their couches eating prescription drugs and using food stamps for toilet paper. 

I'm willing to entertain the idea of letting them remain illegal and not pay income tax so they also dont collect all the services that poor citizens do.  From some other article, poor people pay 10k in taxes and get 30k in benefits.  You said that illegals, if they were to become citzens, would see benefits increase 117% to what I will infer is 30k. Meaning that as illegal aliens they get about 14k in benefits. They pay 0 taxes, so their deficit is 14k, as opposed to the 20k deficit which for each legal poor person.  Further, there is no saving from employing legal citzens, as marginal as that might be.

People need to stop being all high and mighty about being citzens and paying taxes.  Citzenship is not the issue.  The issue is some people are poor and need to be supported by the government. 

As an aside, if we are so overrun with non english speaking poor illegal aliens, how come I have never had an bum with the slightest hint of an accent ask me for change. And believe me, my sample size is huge.  What are the reasons for this: I dont really know. Perhaps they work hard and have a strong sense of family, so if they face some sort of challenge that would bumify them, somebody helps them out. 

This is not an issue worthy of the attention and grandstanding it receives.  On the surface it sounds legit to bash these people as drains on the economy and say they are taking our jobs, when this type of hysteria is just trolling for cheap votes in much the same way that Fenty would run around here yammering about how the people of DC are building a playground for billionaires.

I am in general agreement.  But, I do disagree with a couple points – I do believe citizenship is the issue and I believe it is an issue worthy of attention (but agree with you on the grandstanding and being used to buy votes). While I am in favor of immigration, I don't like our open borders, and believe there is a difference between the two.  I would like to see immigration be legal, regulated, and enforced as it is already on the books.  I despise the amnesty bills being tossed around in order to buy votes (power).  I don't blame the immigrants, I blame those in power who have, and to some extent I believe intentionally, let the problem get out of hand.

If somebody wants to immigrate, let them do so legally, with us regulating the numbers of immigrants.  If they show some means of supporting themselves, or having families to do so, they are usually welcome.  There are times they still are not welcome – this is where the limitation on the numbers comes into play.  Even if they can provide means for themselves, just be sure that it is not at the cost of the means of an existing US citizen.  To overly simplify, assume there are 100 job openings, and 80 current US citizens (or even previously existing legal immigrants) willing and able to fill those jobs.   Do not let more than 20 new immigrants that are willing and able to fulfill those jobs.  If even one more comes in, at best it becomes an employers market and the wages for the 100 others drops a little, and we now have an unemployed immigrant on welfare.  This is where citizenship matters.  I believe citizens have the first right of refusal – whether it be for jobs or public aid.

Offline nospinzone1

  • Posts: 3083
Re: ECONOMICS AND THE ILEGALS.
« Reply #28: May 28, 2007, 10:18:56 AM »
I am in general agreement.  But, I do disagree with a couple points – I do believe citizenship is the issue and I believe it is an issue worthy of attention (but agree with you on the grandstanding and being used to buy votes). While I am in favor of immigration, I don't like our open borders, and believe there is a difference between the two.  I would like to see immigration be legal, regulated, and enforced as it is already on the books.  I despise the amnesty bills being tossed around in order to buy votes (power).  I don't blame the immigrants, I blame those in power who have, and to some extent I believe intentionally, let the problem get out of hand.

If somebody wants to immigrate, let them do so legally, with us regulating the numbers of immigrants.  If they show some means of supporting themselves, or having families to do so, they are usually welcome.  There are times they still are not welcome – this is where the limitation on the numbers comes into play.  Even if they can provide means for themselves, just be sure that it is not at the cost of the means of an existing US citizen.  To overly simplify, assume there are 100 job openings, and 80 current US citizens (or even previously existing legal immigrants) willing and able to fill those jobs.   Do not let more than 20 new immigrants that are willing and able to fulfill those jobs.  If even one more comes in, at best it becomes an employers market and the wages for the 100 others drops a little, and we now have an unemployed immigrant on welfare.  This is where citizenship matters.  I believe citizens have the first right of refusal – whether it be for jobs or public aid.

EXACTLY THE POINT I HAVE BEEN TYRING TO MAKE. I AGREE COMPLETLY WITH YOU. I AM SORRY SOMEBODY HAS TWISTED MY THINKING ON THE SUBJECT.

Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

  • Posts: 11567
  • babble on
Re: ECONOMICS AND THE ILEGALS.
« Reply #29: May 28, 2007, 11:52:07 AM »
The source data taken as individual points are fine, but I guess I question some of the assumptions...in particular this: "One year ago today, the US$/Euro was 1.2777.  Today it is 1.3452 - a 5.3% devaluation.  About 20% of that devaluation is directly due to the deficit caused by illegals."

How is 20% of the devaluation of the dollar vs the Euro due to illegals?  For one thing, there are many more illegals in Europe than the U.S. (just look in the back of any restaurant in Stuttgart, Dublin, or Madrid).  I'm no economist, though I do read a fair bit on the subject, and this is the first time I've ever heard of a direct link between the forex rate and illegal immigration.  I can see how illegal immigration might have a very, very indirect effect in terms of demand for goods & labour in the formal economy, but the forex rate is first and foremost affected by interest rates, and only secondarily by fiscal policy...right??  Besides, as for deficit spending, whatever real or supposed effect illegals have on national accounts is tiny, absolutely TINY compared to what we are spending in the middle east...and it is not a partisan attack to point out the indisputable fact that the increase in the federal deficit has been 100% due to military spending (again, I'm not necessarily passing judgment on this per se, I'm just saying that this is the case). 

As for the outsourcing of skilled jobs, that is an entirely different matter, and one where I think there is a major disconnect between economic theory and social reality...free mobility of capital and labour might look good on paper, but the human cost is way too high.       

There are actually several sources:

The Fiscal Cost of Low-Skill Immigrants to the U.S. Taxpayer or, you can read the Executive Summary rather than the full report
Euro/US$ Exchange Rates
Economic Policy Institute - an online equivalent that quotes similar info (actually, somewhat higher job loss numbers)
Link Between Exchange Rates and Inflation - an online summary that shows correlation in a theoretical example
US Census - Imports
CIA Factbook - Size of US Economy (GDP)
Payscale Research - Average Manufacturing Wages (online source - higher than the salary figure I used for the lost jobs)
CDC - US Life Expectancy
US Census - Number of Households
Illegal Immigration and the Federal Budget
US Treasury - Debt to the Penny
US Treasury - Historical Debt (true debt, permitting true calculation of the annual deficit as opposed to the one's President's like to tout - which would make the impact a much higher % of the deficit)

Additional info, but not used above:
Social Security Administration - the $623 monthly Standard Payment that amnestees would receive upon reaching SSA eligibility even if they never worked here a day in their lives

Offline NatsAddict

  • Posts: 4095
Re: ECONOMICS AND THE ILEGALS.
« Reply #30: May 28, 2007, 03:28:31 PM »
The source data taken as individual points are fine, but I guess I question some of the assumptions...in particular this: "One year ago today, the US$/Euro was 1.2777.  Today it is 1.3452 - a 5.3% devaluation.  About 20% of that devaluation is directly due to the deficit caused by illegals."

How is 20% of the devaluation of the dollar vs the Euro due to illegals?  For one thing, there are many more illegals in Europe than the U.S. (just look in the back of any restaurant in Stuttgart, Dublin, or Madrid).  I'm no economist, though I do read a fair bit on the subject, and this is the first time I've ever heard of a direct link between the forex rate and illegal immigration. 

The primary cause of the devaluation of a fiat currency, such as the US$, is its excess money supply caused by deficit spending.  If not for the illegals, our current deficit would have dropped by roughly 20% the last few years.  This is their contribution to the devaluation of the US$. 

The interest rates are a contributing factor, but insignificant when compared to money supply/debt with regard to their impact on exchange rates (personal savings, future debt projection, and economic growth projections all have more of an impact than interest rates, but money supply dwarves all of them combined).  If spending is reigned in, and deficits eliminated, there is no need to attract investment by hiking rates as there are no debt securities that need to be issued.  Interest rate were never intended to be used to control exchange rates.

Further evidence of how little the interest are impacting the foreign exchange rates is how our excess interest rates are already more than the market is willing to bear.  This is shown by the yield inversion.  For most of the past couple years the yield on 2 year notes has exceeded the 10 notes.  Nobody wants the US$ long term regardless of the rates.  This created Greenspan's "conundrum" where the debt created such a problem that his only tool, control of the interest rates, was becoming worthless our own economy (thus the yield inversion, birth - boom - and bust of the sub prime, and further off topic areas).

A glaring example of how little the fed fund rate has have on the Forex, when the Fed started the interest rate hikes on June 30, 2004, they hiked the rate to 1.25%.  The ECB rate at the time was at 2.00%.  Now, the Fed is sitting on 5.25, and the ECB is at 3.75.  The Fed rate has gone fro 0.75% lower than the ECB to 1.50% higher - a gain of 2.25% - a three-fold gain.  If anything, using the interest rate theory, the US$ would have strengthened enormously vs the Euro.  The opposite it true.  On June 29, 2004, the Euro/US$ exchange rate was 1.2179.  At this moment, it is at 1.3460.

As for the war on terror, since it's declaration, our debt has grown by approximately $3.01 trillion to date.  The cost of the wars on terror, in Afghanistan and Iraq in strictly financial terms, with the recent funding, is being reported at about $510 billion, or about 17% of annual deficits - roughly the same as the amount of the deficit created by the reckless lack of enforcement of existing immigration laws. 

Finally, economic theory is beginning to change, to turn more to the theories of Freidman rather than Galbraith - at least in the rest of the world.  The fiscal policies of the US has us in unchartered waters.  As Greenspan noted, much of the former economic theory and Fed policies no longer apply.  As a government, we need to be fiscally responsible, end the deficits, turn them into surpluses, and reduce our debt.  This is going to be difficult enough with the Medicare, Social Security, and Education time bombs sitting out there (and whose fuses have burned much more rapidly during these extreme deficit years).  The open door immigration/amnesty policies are an unnecessary drain.  To the existing citizens and legal immigrants, as well as future legal immigrants, the enforcement of existing immigration laws and rejection of the amnesty bill are relatively painless cuts in the deficit.

Offline nospinzone1

  • Posts: 3083
Re: ECONOMICS AND THE ILEGALS.
« Reply #31: May 28, 2007, 05:11:33 PM »
IT SEEMS TO ME THAT A LOT OF THOSE STATISTICS DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE ILLEGALS BREAKING THE LAW.

I AM STILL WAITING TIL HELL FREEZES OVER FOR THE MODERATOR THAT SCOLDE3D ME TO SHOW ME WHERE I HAVE BASHED THIS COUNTRY. PUT UP OR SHUT UP.

Offline Kenz aFan

  • Posts: 5433
Re: ECONOMICS AND THE ILEGALS.
« Reply #32: May 28, 2007, 05:39:57 PM »
EXCUSE ME, BUT NOT ONLY DO I ABSOLUTELY NOT INTEND TO SEARCH FOR ANY POSTS BY YOU CONTAINING INSINUATIONS, I HAVE NEITHER THE TIME OR THE INCLINATION TO DO SO. I SHOULD HAVE DONE LIKE I ALWAYS DO, AND SIMPLY MARKED THE THREAD AS READ AND MOVED ON.

FYI, I DIDN'T POST ANY MESSAGE TO YOU IN THE ROLL OF MODERATOR, IT WAS NOTHING MORE THAN A NORMAL POST.

Offline nospinzone1

  • Posts: 3083
Re: ECONOMICS AND THE ILEGALS.
« Reply #33: May 28, 2007, 06:43:29 PM »
EXCUSE ME, BUT NOT ONLY DO I ABSOLUTELY NOT INTEND TO SEARCH FOR ANY POSTS BY YOU CONTAINING INSINUATIONS, I HAVE NEITHER THE TIME OR THE INCLINATION TO DO SO. I SHOULD HAVE DONE LIKE I ALWAYS DO, AND SIMPLY MARKED THE THREAD AS READ AND MOVED ON.

FYI, I DIDN'T POST ANY MESSAGE TO YOU IN THE ROLL OF MODERATOR, IT WAS NOTHING MORE THAN A NORMAL POST.

NEVERTHELESS YOU WERE WRONG AND ACCUSED ME OF SOMETHING THAT WAS A BOLDFACE LIE.

Offline nospinzone1

  • Posts: 3083
Re: ECONOMICS AND THE ILEGALS.
« Reply #34: May 28, 2007, 06:44:20 PM »
DONT MEAN TO BE UPSETTNG...JUST A LITTLE JOKE....
 Just a note to tell you that my mailbox is being flooded with mail concerning gas prices and illegal immigrants.
To boycott oil companies or not; to provide amnesty to illegal immigrants or not, etc.

        Since I have become jaded to the various solutions proposed by the Republicans, Democrats, Sierra Club, ACLU, etc., I have elected to solve the problems as they affect me.

        My response solves both my gas and illegal immigrant problems . . . I have hired illegal immigrants to push my car.
They're plentiful and cheaper than buying gas.
Then I pay them in Pesos so they have to go home to spend it.


  Don't you just love it when a plan comes together?



Mexico  Drops Out Of Olympics

President Felipe Calderon of Mexico h as announced that Mexico will not participate in the next Summer Olympics . He said that, "Anyone who can run, jump, or swim has already left the country."

Offline nospinzone1

  • Posts: 3083
Re: ECONOMICS AND THE ILEGALS.
« Reply #35: May 28, 2007, 07:22:37 PM »
Never would have considered to post this but since my sincerity as a citizen of the U>S. has been questioned i want to make the folks aware of my experience in my 33 years at the Post. There were several Canadian citizens working there. Nice people. One little problem. they were closets racists. They would rag on afroamericans. and talk about their feelings for the U.S., 95 percent of them could not wait to retire and go back to live in Canada. No U.S. citizenship considered. But they were still nice mild mannered folks.

Offline Dave B

  • Posts: 6019
Re: ECONOMICS AND THE ILEGALS.
« Reply #36: May 28, 2007, 07:33:00 PM »
Never would have considered to post this but since my sincerity as a citizen of the U>S. has been questioned i want to make the folks aware of my experience in my 33 years at the Post. There were several Canadian citizens working there. Nice people. One little problem. they were closets racists. They would rag on afroamericans. and talk about their feelings for the U.S., 95 percent of them could not wait to retire and go back to live in Canada. No U.S. citizenship considered. But they were still nice mild mannered folks.

We are all well aware of the accuracy of basing judgments on most people of a nationality/ethnicity on the sample size of several coworkers.  Who can argue with it?  I dont think I know any Cubans, however based on my experience with a Cuban on a message board I'm pretty sure I dont want to.  Actually I dont even think I like that Cuban pork sandwich I have bought a couple of times from the restaurant down the street.  That works right?  I'm going to hang out with my prostitute and pimp illegal alien friends. They're more fun.

Offline nospinzone1

  • Posts: 3083
Re: ECONOMICS AND THE ILEGALS.
« Reply #37: May 28, 2007, 07:49:09 PM »
We are all well aware of the accuracy of basing judgments on most people of a nationality/ethnicity on the sample size of several coworkers.  Who can argue with it?  I dont think I know any Cubans, however based on my experience with a Cuban on a message board I'm pretty sure I dont want to.  Actually I dont even think I like that Cuban pork sandwich I have bought a couple of times from the restaurant down the street.  That works right?  I'm going to hang out with my prostitute and pimp illegal alien friends. They're more fun.

the beauty of this country. anyone can agree to disagree with anyone. i only posted that on account of the personal attack on my love for this country.


Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

  • Posts: 11567
  • babble on
Re: ECONOMICS AND THE ILEGALS.
« Reply #39: May 28, 2007, 10:55:07 PM »
 

Not sure I would prefer to live in a Greenspan vs a Galbraith world (I really liked reading Galbraith's books, but that was years ago, and had more to do with fun reading over a beer than soaking up the master plan for economic policy).  I guess in my dotage, I'm turning into a bit of a fiscal conservative (the horror), so this is interesting stuff.  Thanks!

     

The primary cause of the devaluation of a fiat currency, such as the US$, is its excess money supply caused by deficit spending.  If not for the illegals, our current deficit would have dropped by roughly 20% the last few years.  This is their contribution to the devaluation of the US$. 

The interest rates are a contributing factor, but insignificant when compared to money supply/debt with regard to their impact on exchange rates (personal savings, future debt projection, and economic growth projections all have more of an impact than interest rates, but money supply dwarves all of them combined).  If spending is reigned in, and deficits eliminated, there is no need to attract investment by hiking rates as there are no debt securities that need to be issued.  Interest rate were never intended to be used to control exchange rates.

Further evidence of how little the interest are impacting the foreign exchange rates is how our excess interest rates are already more than the market is willing to bear.  This is shown by the yield inversion.  For most of the past couple years the yield on 2 year notes has exceeded the 10 notes.  Nobody wants the US$ long term regardless of the rates.  This created Greenspan's "conundrum" where the debt created such a problem that his only tool, control of the interest rates, was becoming worthless our own economy (thus the yield inversion, birth - boom - and bust of the sub prime, and further off topic areas).

A glaring example of how little the fed fund rate has have on the Forex, when the Fed started the interest rate hikes on June 30, 2004, they hiked the rate to 1.25%.  The ECB rate at the time was at 2.00%.  Now, the Fed is sitting on 5.25, and the ECB is at 3.75.  The Fed rate has gone fro 0.75% lower than the ECB to 1.50% higher - a gain of 2.25% - a three-fold gain.  If anything, using the interest rate theory, the US$ would have strengthened enormously vs the Euro.  The opposite it true.  On June 29, 2004, the Euro/US$ exchange rate was 1.2179.  At this moment, it is at 1.3460.

As for the war on terror, since it's declaration, our debt has grown by approximately $3.01 trillion to date.  The cost of the wars on terror, in Afghanistan and Iraq in strictly financial terms, with the recent funding, is being reported at about $510 billion, or about 17% of annual deficits - roughly the same as the amount of the deficit created by the reckless lack of enforcement of existing immigration laws. 

Finally, economic theory is beginning to change, to turn more to the theories of Freidman rather than Galbraith - at least in the rest of the world.  The fiscal policies of the US has us in unchartered waters.  As Greenspan noted, much of the former economic theory and Fed policies no longer apply.  As a government, we need to be fiscally responsible, end the deficits, turn them into surpluses, and reduce our debt.  This is going to be difficult enough with the Medicare, Social Security, and Education time bombs sitting out there (and whose fuses have burned much more rapidly during these extreme deficit years).  The open door immigration/amnesty policies are an unnecessary drain.  To the existing citizens and legal immigrants, as well as future legal immigrants, the enforcement of existing immigration laws and rejection of the amnesty bill are relatively painless cuts in the deficit.


Offline Kenz aFan

  • Posts: 5433
Re: ECONOMICS AND THE ILEGALS.
« Reply #40: May 28, 2007, 11:05:09 PM »
NEVERTHELESS YOU WERE WRONG AND ACCUSED ME OF SOMETHING THAT WAS A BOLDFACE LIE.

EXCUSE ME, BUT IF YOU WEREN'T SO FULL OF YOURSELF, YOU MIGHT ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO SEE WHAT OTHER PEOPLE SEE IN "SOME" OF YOUR POSTS. YOU ARE THE WORST KIND OF BIGOT THERE IS, AND THE SAD PART IS, YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE SOME OF THE CRAP THAT COMES OUT OF YOUR MOUTH.

ONE: I DO NOT LIE, PERIOD... ESPECIALLY NOT TO SOMEONE WHO'S SO FULL (INSERT EXPLETIVE OF CHOICE). YOU ONCE SAID TO ME, THAT I HAD NO RIGHT TO MAKE ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT YOU BECAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW YOU. BUT THEN' LIKE HERE, YOU TURN RIGHT AROUND AND DO THE SAME THING YOU ACCUSED ME OF.

I'M NOT YOUR ENEMY, NOR AM I YOUR BEST FRIEND, AND EVEN THOUGH WE'VE NEVER MET, YOU'RE STILL KINDA LIKE FAMILY, AND SOMEONE NEEDS TO TELL YOU YOU'RE BEING AN jerk.

IT'S BETTER I DO IT AND PLAY THE PRICE IF THERE IS ONE.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE READING MY COMMENTS, PASSING OVER AND NOT READING ANYTHING I WRITE IS EASY ENOUGH TO DO.

Offline nospinzone1

  • Posts: 3083
Re: ECONOMICS AND THE ILEGALS.
« Reply #41: May 28, 2007, 11:46:18 PM »
I THINK THE ONE THAT IS FULL OF IT IS YOU....YHOU LIED ABOUT ME POSTING RAGS ON MY ADOPTED COUNTRY AND YOU DONT HAVE THE BALLS TO ADMIT IT. as I posted before, and I repeat in case you are not intelligent enough to read and interpret what I say, the canadians I worked with for 33 ywears were nice polite people with the only fault that they were closet racists and bigots against african americans and did in their majority want to become american citizens. Did I hit a sore spot with that statement. and believe me, it is a true statement. most of the ones I worked with are happily retired in Canada.

Offline nospinzone1

  • Posts: 3083
Re: ECONOMICS AND THE ILEGALS.
« Reply #42: May 28, 2007, 11:56:08 PM »
EXCUSE ME, BUT IF YOU WEREN'T SO FULL OF YOURSELF, YOU MIGHT ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO SEE WHAT OTHER PEOPLE SEE IN "SOME" OF YOUR POSTS. YOU ARE THE WORST KIND OF BIGOT THERE IS, AND THE SAD PART IS, YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE SOME OF THE CRAP THAT COMES OUT OF YOUR MOUTH.

ONE: I DO NOT LIE, PERIOD... ESPECIALLY NOT TO SOMEONE WHO'S SO FULL (INSERT EXPLETIVE OF CHOICE). YOU ONCE SAID TO ME, THAT I HAD NO RIGHT TO MAKE ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT YOU BECAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW YOU. BUT THEN' LIKE HERE, YOU TURN RIGHT AROUND AND DO THE SAME THING YOU ACCUSED ME OF.

I'M NOT YOUR ENEMY, NOR AM I YOUR BEST FRIEND, AND EVEN THOUGH WE'VE NEVER MET, YOU'RE STILL KINDA LIKE FAMILY, AND SOMEONE NEEDS TO TELL YOU YOU'RE BEING AN jerk.

IT'S BETTER I DO IT AND PLAY THE PRICE IF THERE IS ONE.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE READING MY COMMENTS, PASSING OVER AND NOT READING ANYTHING I WRITE IS EASY ENOUGH TO DO.

pass you over when you attack me? you full of yourself. I served the U..S. armed forces for six years, live in a free country and you are not going to gag me. put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Offline nospinzone1

  • Posts: 3083
Re: ECONOMICS AND THE ILEGALS.
« Reply #43: May 29, 2007, 12:00:02 AM »
 

Not sure I would prefer to live in a Greenspan vs a Galbraith world (I really liked reading Galbraith's books, but that was years ago, and had more to do with fun reading over a beer than soaking up the master plan for economic policy).  I guess in my dotage, I'm turning into a bit of a fiscal conservative (the horror), so this is interesting stuff.  Thanks!

     

EXCUSE ME, BUT IF YOU WEREN'T SO FULL OF YOURSELF, YOU MIGHT ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO SEE WHAT OTHER PEOPLE SEE IN "SOME" OF YOUR POSTS. YOU ARE THE WORST KIND OF BIGOT THERE IS, AND THE SAD PART IS, YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE SOME OF THE CRAP THAT COMES OUT OF YOUR MOUTH.

ONE: I DO NOT LIE, PERIOD... ESPECIALLY NOT TO SOMEONE WHO'S SO FULL (INSERT EXPLETIVE OF CHOICE). YOU ONCE SAID TO ME, THAT I HAD NO RIGHT TO MAKE ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT YOU BECAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW YOU. BUT THEN' LIKE HERE, YOU TURN RIGHT AROUND AND DO THE SAME THING YOU ACCUSED ME OF.

I'M NOT YOUR ENEMY, NOR AM I YOUR BEST FRIEND, AND EVEN THOUGH WE'VE NEVER MET, YOU'RE STILL KINDA LIKE FAMILY, AND SOMEONE NEEDS TO TELL YOU YOU'RE BEING AN jerk.

IT'S BETTER I DO IT AND PLAY THE PRICE IF THERE IS ONE.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE READING MY COMMENTS, PASSING OVER AND NOT READING ANYTHING I WRITE IS EASY ENOUGH TO DO.
 

Not sure I would prefer to live in a Greenspan vs a Galbraith world (I really liked reading Galbraith's books, but that was years ago, and had more to do with fun reading over a beer than soaking up the master plan for economic policy).  I guess in my dotage, I'm turning into a bit of a fiscal conservative (the horror), so this is interesting stuff.  Thanks!

can you explain to me why we refuse to do business with Cuba, (which I am in accord with since Kastro does not pay his foreign debts and we should not give him credit) and on the other hand we have a horrendous trade balance with communist China, one of the worse repressive countries in the world. We buy all kinds of sheis from them and is so hard avoiding buying their junk. Why do we americans are so interested in saving a few shekels in order to buy their crap?

     


Offline Kenz aFan

  • Posts: 5433
Re: ECONOMICS AND THE ILEGALS.
« Reply #44: May 29, 2007, 01:28:37 AM »
pass you over when you attack me? you full of yourself. I served the U..S. armed forces for six years, live in a free country and you are not going to gag me. put that in your pipe and smoke it.

I told you I didn't lie... I rest my case...

Offline Kenz aFan

  • Posts: 5433
Re: ECONOMICS AND THE ILEGALS.
« Reply #45: May 29, 2007, 02:30:07 AM »
I THINK THE ONE THAT IS FULL OF IT IS YOU....YHOU LIED ABOUT ME POSTING RAGS ON MY ADOPTED COUNTRY AND YOU DONT HAVE THE BALLS TO ADMIT IT. as I posted before, and I repeat in case you are not intelligent enough to read and interpret what I say, the canadians I worked with for 33 ywears were nice polite people with the only fault that they were closet racists and bigots against african americans and did in their majority want to become american citizens. Did I hit a sore spot with that statement. and believe me, it is a true statement. most of the ones I worked with are happily retired in Canada.

You once told me that I had no right to judge anyone because I didn't know who you are, but you pretty much did the same thing in regards to Canadians. Because you worked with a a select few Canadian for 33 years, your opinion of Canadians is based on what you know, which is nothing. If everyone in the world thought everyone American was like you say they are, the United States wouldn't be the country it is today. Without them, the U.S. would be very different, and in all likelihood, you'd still be living in Cuba. If those Canadians you worked with were racists, closet or otherwise, then the reason they must have been working in there, was possibly because no decent Canadian wanted them working with them. Yes, there are racists in Canada, so what, just because you knew a few Canadians who were racist, doesn't mean that all Canadians are racists. Judging anyone, Canadians or whomever, based on the tiny sample you had to work with, makes you prejudiced towards them. Prejudice, racism and bigotry are so much the same, they're interchangeable. Am I a bigot, well if hating intolerance, ignorance (not to be confused with uneducated) and bigotry makes me a bigot or racist, then that's what I am. I have never seen the color of a person's skin, their choice of religion, or way of life, as anything to do with who they are. They are all the same as I am, have the same feelings, hurt the same, feel joys and pains the same, are all the perfect height and weight on the inside as we all are. Yea, I'm a bigot, because I cant stand people with narrow minds.

And why on earth would I want to gag you, freedom of speech is a God given right. I'm not arguing your right to say what you like, my beef is against the bigot that lives in your posts. One day you will wake up to the fact that your's is not the absolute truth, and that most of the time, the world is right and you're wrong.

Offline nospinzone1

  • Posts: 3083
Re: ECONOMICS AND THE ILEGALS.
« Reply #46: May 29, 2007, 10:10:34 AM »
I told you I didn't lie... I rest my case...

YOU DID LIE!

Offline nospinzone1

  • Posts: 3083
Re: ECONOMICS AND THE ILEGALS.
« Reply #47: May 29, 2007, 10:15:15 AM »
YOU SAID OTHERS IN THIS PLACE FEEL THE SAME WAY YOU DO ABOUT ME AND I HAVE NOT SEEN any evidence of it. Just you that are the one that dont like me. you alone so far. you are a compulsive liar and you are right I dont want anything to do with you any longer. You twist my words also since I said that those canadians that I worked with were real nice people except for their racism and bigotry and it was true that most of them chose not to become american citizens and are happily retired ein Canada enjoying the fuits of their labor in the good ol USA . you right i dont want to communicate with you any longer. I , as a cuban jew especially the jew part have long noses so we can smell a bigot and a racist. GOODBYE.

Offline The Chief

  • Posts: 30136
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Re: ECONOMICS AND THE ILEGALS.
« Reply #48: May 29, 2007, 05:53:57 PM »
Alrighty, methinks this discussion has run its course.  Thanks for playing, everyone.

Offline Senators2005

  • Lake Ridge, VA
  • Posts: 12263
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    • http://nationalsnation.spaces.live.com/
Re: ECONOMICS AND THE ILEGALS.
« Reply #49: May 30, 2007, 06:04:21 AM »
Alrighty, methinks this discussion has run its course.  Thanks for playing, everyone.
What's cracked me up about this thread being locked is that it WASN'T because of the subject matter.  Who woulda thunk it?   :lol: