Author Topic: MY IMITATION OF ANDREW ON THIS DAY  (Read 2121 times)

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Offline nospinzone1

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Re: MY IMITATION OF ANDREW ON THIS DAY
« Reply #25: May 24, 2007, 11:46:18 PM »
Nospin, I think, if I read correctly that Sens may have been agreeing in part w/ you.  I saw that as more of a response to Dave.  Am I right on this one or out in LF, Sens?

YOU COULD be right, got to go back and read the whole thread.

Offline nospinzone1

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Re: MY IMITATION OF ANDREW ON THIS DAY
« Reply #26: May 24, 2007, 11:48:53 PM »
Holy Cow!  No wonder we're spiraling out of control!  And those immigration rallies really tick me off.  They're not even legal residents so where do they get off making demands of our gov't.  If you don't like it, don't stay.  They weren't invited to begin w/.  Plus if the U.S. is so great, then why the fuss is all this Mexico is great stuff.  If Mexico is so great, GO BACK.  This just really gets my goat.  And where's that fence?

and the ones taking sanctuary at churches, I would let them stay there til hell freezes over and see how long they last without food and sanitary services. and the churches are condoning illegal behavior. not very cool either.

Offline nospinzone1

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Re: MY IMITATION OF ANDREW ON THIS DAY
« Reply #27: May 24, 2007, 11:50:10 PM »
With my legal career starting in full swing at the age of 27, hopefully I won't need Social Security.

make sure you take advantage of your 401k and matching fund programs.

Offline nospinzone1

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Re: MY IMITATION OF ANDREW ON THIS DAY
« Reply #28: May 24, 2007, 11:52:09 PM »
Remember when Clinton was president in 1998 or so?  The economy was great; we had countries OWING US money instead of us OWING THEM money.  God, I just can't picture what the economy will be like fifty years from now at this rate.  Or I could just move to France; I speak French pretty well.  I mean, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em :)

lousy choice....French people hate Americans and America

Offline nospinzone1

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Re: MY IMITATION OF ANDREW ON THIS DAY
« Reply #29: May 24, 2007, 11:53:37 PM »
Actually our economy is BOOMING...Wall Street and the Dow is at an all-time high.  What they are not telling you is that the success is not being distributed (in laments terms, all the rich people are keeping it for themselves).  While corporate profits are up, mid-level salaries are stagnant.  So much for "trickle down economics".

Cost of living is up. inflation is up, price of gas is up, cost of a loaf of friggin bread is up, personal debt is now on the rise.  It's really getting bad...these upper crust snobs better get a grip or they are going to screw the pooch on the greatest country in the world.

and BJ klinton is the one that had Bin Laden in his grasp and wimped out.

Offline nospinzone1

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Re: MY IMITATION OF ANDREW ON THIS DAY
« Reply #30: May 24, 2007, 11:54:31 PM »
Nospin,

YOU ARE MY HERO!

I dont care who you are, or what color, or religion you are. you better pay taxes just like it do!

My great-great grandparents were from ireland. they were imigrants. they got their papers, so to speak. they PAID TAXES.

and im sorry, you dont dissss the leader of the free world like that. im sorry but as much as i am a republican. if a dem would win the white house next election. i would not disrepect him/her. (well mabey if it was hillary...i would puke)



Anyways, women who are both dem and rep say GOP men are much better. casue who wants to date a man who drives a prius?

go-green, NOT



hope Matt is not jealous!

Offline nospinzone1

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Re: MY IMITATION OF ANDREW ON THIS DAY
« Reply #31: May 24, 2007, 11:56:41 PM »
Nospin,

Breaking some laws is not as bad as breaking others. I drive over the speed limit all the time

Others,

I do not claim to be an expert on these things.  I was just trying to say that this is not a clear cut issue. These people do bring value to our nations and essentially global economy.  Engineering jobs are being farmed out to India because they work for cheap.  Cheap work does not need to only be performed inside our borders.  So I really think the cheapening of labor will only occur at those menial jobs if illegals are let in, because nothing is stopping high paying jobs from being cheapened on the global level now. 

In what is becoming an increasingly global economy, there will be millions if not billions of equally qualified people willing to work for much less than we are in almost all walks of life, as long as that job doesnt require speaking english.  We've kind of had it too good for too long.  And now it is starting to even out.

In terms of the illegals working for cheap, they can only work for cheap because they are illegal and can be paid less than minimum since they dont exist on the books. 

Keeping illegals out is putting a finger in the dyke.  I remember a stat from a professor that I heard a while ago: the US is 6% of the worlds population and consumes half of it resources.  Those might not be the exact numbers, but the point is we are insanely wealthier than other countries and if things equilibriate, as most things do, there is nowhere for us to go but down.

so what happens when illegals get to be the majority of the country and convert ours into a Haiti, or a Dominican Republic, or Mejico, the most corrupt of all of them, or El Salvador, or Guatemala....all their governments are corrupt and these illegals instead of staying hgome and getting rid of them they want to come here and convert our country into a third world nation.

Offline nospinzone1

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Re: MY IMITATION OF ANDREW ON THIS DAY
« Reply #32: May 24, 2007, 11:58:36 PM »
That's right and excuse me for not being politically correct: but I don't want to "equilibriate" with India & Mexico.  I don't want my quality of life to depreciate so that the people of the world can have a job...I elect and pay my politicians (supposedly anyways) to make sure that doesn't happen.
[/quot

our pay to the pols are nothing compared to the big insurance and drug companies tht have more money than us to buy them out. witness the Sr. Medicare RX program.

Offline nospinzone1

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Re: MY IMITATION OF ANDREW ON THIS DAY
« Reply #33: May 25, 2007, 12:00:26 AM »
ME THINKS THEY SHOULD CLOSE THIS THREAD. I AM SORRY I GOT INTO POLITICS HERE. WE ARE A FRIENDLY NATS BUNCH AND I WOULD HATE TO HAVE THIS KIND OF DISAGREEMENTS.

Offline saltydad

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Re: MY IMITATION OF ANDREW ON THIS DAY
« Reply #34: May 25, 2007, 12:44:38 AM »
Obviously it sounds like a GOP commercial here. I'm not sure what President Bush has to do with the Nats (outside of disrespecting us by not throwing out the 1st ball this year), so i hesitate to jump in here, as religion and politics are the two big no-no's for a good collegial group. Shall we just say I respectfully agree to disagree, and we'll leave it at that.

Offline Senators2005

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Re: MY IMITATION OF ANDREW ON THIS DAY
« Reply #35: May 25, 2007, 01:22:35 AM »
Obviously it sounds like a GOP commercial here. I'm not sure what President Bush has to do with the Nats (outside of disrespecting us by not throwing out the 1st ball this year), so i hesitate to jump in here, as religion and politics are the two big no-no's for a good collegial group. Shall we just say I respectfully agree to disagree, and we'll leave it at that.
We are in the OFF TOPIC section...so it doesn't have to be about the NATS.  So long as there are no personal attacks on anyone, there is no reason to lock the thread.  Although I grant you politics tend to do that kind of thing...and there's a big danger of that happening and the mods will have to babysit this one because of it.

But except for the Bill Clinton stuff (which is irellevant to the topic, and some other stuff NoSpinzone added in there) I don't find this a GOP slanted thread.  You certainly won't hear ME defend the GOP on this subject.  That's for sure.

In fact the dissatisfaction with the immigration bill that Bush wants to pass...is rejected by most Americans across the policital spectrum.  In fact...CNN reported that there is less support from the American public for the McCain/Kennedy/Bush immigration bill than for the Iraq war.   :-[

Offline kimnat

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Re: MY IMITATION OF ANDREW ON THIS DAY
« Reply #36: May 25, 2007, 08:14:44 AM »
In fact the dissatisfaction with the immigration bill that Bush wants to pass...is rejected by most Americans across the policital spectrum.  In fact...CNN reported that there is less support from the American public for the McCain/Kennedy/Bush immigration bill than for the Iraq war.   :-[

Wow!  I hadn't heard that one.  But I'm glad for those polls for once!

Salty,  what a wonderful response!  Even though you don't agree, you're not getting upset about it like others (and I'm NOT refering to you Dave, just generic others on the left).  I do find this topic to be rather interesting.

Offline nospinzone1

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Re: MY IMITATION OF ANDREW ON THIS DAY
« Reply #37: May 25, 2007, 11:42:00 AM »
Wow!  I hadn't heard that one.  But I'm glad for those polls for once!

Salty,  what a wonderful response!  Even though you don't agree, you're not getting upset about it like others (and I'm NOT refering to you Dave, just generic others on the left).  I do find this topic to be rather interesting.

SALTY IS RIGHT IN ONE RESPECT; RELIGION AND POLITICS ARE NOT GOOD TOPICS AMONG FRIENDS. IT HAS POTENTIAL TO MAKE PEOPLE MAD AT EACH OTHER.

Online Dave B

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Re: MY IMITATION OF ANDREW ON THIS DAY
« Reply #38: May 25, 2007, 02:19:14 PM »
That's right and excuse me for not being politically correct: but I don't want to "equilibriate" with India & Mexico.  I don't want my quality of life to depreciate so that the people of the world can have a job...I elect and pay my politicians (supposedly anyways) to make sure that doesn't happen.

i would rather it not happen either. as you mentioned before, the gap between the rich and poor is widening.  just hope you get on the good side of the dviding line. 

you can't fight the equilibriation. its just a force of nature. economics dictate that people buy the cheapest stuff. the cheapest stuff is made in other countries. the cheapest labor (some of which is educated) is in other countries.  until americans are willing to take pay cuts and a declining quality of life, jobs are going to go elsewhere.  right now I suppose we can tolerate it, who knows how long until too much.  the point i'm trying to make is that we, as americans, don't have a right to high paying jobs.  it is a fair worldwide competition and the jobs will go to the lowest bidder.  some of those jobs happen to go to illegal people in our country.  employers hire them because they are good for business.  and we get some of that benefit as well.

the rest of the world is starting to catch up to us technologically and we dont have the advantage that we did in the past



Online Dave B

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Re: MY IMITATION OF ANDREW ON THIS DAY
« Reply #39: May 25, 2007, 02:43:25 PM »
According to a report this week, the average unskilled illegal alien household cost the legal taxpayers an average of $19,588 annually.  There are an estimated 4.5 million such households.  The tab comes to just under $90 billion annually.

You can also check out the summary


This report is a little tough to read into in terms of purely illegal immigrants. I'll treat all the low skill immigrants and then the illegal ones with some conservative (in a non political sense) assumptions

These 4.5 million households each receive (net) roughly 20k from the other 100 million or so households, for a total of 90 billion.  90 billion/100 million = 900 per household.  I think, THINK, that the average household saves that much or more due to cheap labor.  That is not a lot of money to save over the course of the year considering all the goods and services we buy.  See my above back of the envelope calculations.  You can probably save 900 dollars on one major home improvement that uses cheap illegal labor, granted not all households undertake renovations of that magnitude.

The illegal only analysis requires some assumptions.  We know the legal and illegal analysis shows that both receive on average 30k worth of benefits, yet pay only 10k in taxes.  Now the illegals pay no taxes and probably dont receive all of the benefits the legals do. Regardless, to bound the problem on the high end, i'll assume they receive all 30k.

4.5 million households, 40% of which are illegal, equals 1.8 million households receiving 30k in benefits. 1.8 million * 30k = 54 billion.  54 bil divided by 100 mil tax paying households = 540 dollars per household that goes to illegal families.

540 dollars is HIGH estimate.  It could be 200 dollars.

They dont cost us that much, if anything, after our savings are accounted for.

Feel free to critique this line of thinking for intellectual purposes.  Maybe I left a zero out somewhere. I could be convinced that illegal people cost us money if the case is presented, but my initial feelings seem to be correct after looking at that report, which might not be the most unbiased report out there.

I only take this side of the debate because this is what I think as an analytical reasonable human being. I have no vested interest in illegal people being here or not.  I am one of the most apolitical people ever.  I actually voted Bush. I dont critique the war. I see why we pulled out of Kyoto, because it would probably cripple the economy.  Its six of one or half dozen of an another. If the war in Iraq is for oil, I completely understand, because we have become dependent on the ****.  Until we start to realize that other countries are nipping at our heels and oil (among other things) is a short term solution we are are just going to keep digging a deeper hole for ourselves.  Rant truncated.

Online Dave B

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Re: MY IMITATION OF ANDREW ON THIS DAY
« Reply #40: May 25, 2007, 03:01:40 PM »

casue who wants to date a man who drives a prius?


maybe one who has foresight or isnt shallow enough to care what kind of car her man drives.  for the record i dont have prius, but when i get another car it will be something along those lines. 

this whole line of thinking like wuss democrats drive prii (plural of prius) so i shouldnt drive one is kind of destructive. if a girl didnt want to date me because i drive an economical, technologically innovative, socially conscious car, see ya and good luck not being miserable when you are old, ugly, and your cooch is all dried up and nobody wants it

Offline Ericas Nats

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Re: MY IMITATION OF ANDREW ON THIS DAY
« Reply #41: May 25, 2007, 06:13:33 PM »
maybe one who has foresight or isnt shallow enough to care what kind of car her man drives.  for the record i dont have prius, but when i get another car it will be something along those lines. 

this whole line of thinking like wuss democrats drive prii (plural of prius) so i shouldnt drive one is kind of destructive. if a girl didnt want to date me because i drive an economical, technologically innovative, socially conscious car, see ya and good luck not being miserable when you are old, ugly, and your cooch is all dried up and nobody wants it

it was a joke... lol :-)


Offline saltydad

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Re: MY IMITATION OF ANDREW ON THIS DAY
« Reply #42: May 25, 2007, 07:06:20 PM »
Just as a footnote, I would like to refer anyone interested to Michael Gerson's column in today's Post. Gerson is Bush's former speechwriter, a Republican with solid conservative credentials. (For these reasons alone, I usually would not give much credence to his thoughts. :lol:) However, in his column Gerson focuses on the immigration debate in a surprisingly, and refreshingly open way. I urge all to read it. Then I'd be interested in your thoughts.
Wow!  I hadn't heard that one.  But I'm glad for those polls for once!

Salty,  what a wonderful response!  Even though you don't agree, you're not getting upset about it like others (and I'm NOT refering to you Dave, just generic others on the left).  I do find this topic to be rather interesting.

Nothing wonderful about it. I tend to also hold very strong political views, but especially after meeting so many of this board, I find I want to maintain my friendships.....I like you guys. Hence my reticence in getting into a political discussion here.

Offline nospinzone1

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Re: MY IMITATION OF ANDREW ON THIS DAY
« Reply #43: May 25, 2007, 08:07:59 PM »
That's right and excuse me for not being politically correct: but I don't want to "equilibriate" with India & Mexico.  I don't want my quality of life to depreciate so that the people of the world can have a job...I elect and pay my politicians (supposedly anyways) to make sure that doesn't happen.

I COULD NOT HAVE SAID IT BETTER MYSELF.

Offline nospinzone1

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Re: MY IMITATION OF ANDREW ON THIS DAY
« Reply #44: May 25, 2007, 08:10:13 PM »
"Nothing wonderful about it. I tend to also hold very strong political views, but especially after meeting so many of this board, I find I want to maintain my friendships.....I like you guys. Hence my reticence in getting into a political discussion here."

I CONCUR